Wing or Endless Waltz designs

Alright, I’m sure this has been asked plenty of times. (like the question of what happens with Char and Amuro in CCA…)

So which would you say is more efficient in battle, better mobility and looked better overall?

So focusing on Wing Zero, the Wing version for me would be the better one, mainly because it can transform. The speed boost has to be extremely invaluable. Also, it looks more like a Gundam than the Custom version (just my opinion).

Also in my opinion, Heavy Arms in EW seemed more agile than in Wing.

In any case, the EW versions where retconned, right? Clearly in flashbacks the EW versions where seen before the events of Wing.

I hate the EW redesigns, with every fiber of my being I hate Hajime Katoki for messing with Kunio Okawara work. Katoki wouldn’t even have a career if it wasn’t for Okawara, all Katoki seems to do is do redesigns of Okawara’s work.

Here are my opinions on the suits from both seires

Kunio Okawara Versions:

Wing (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01w.htm) : Love it, but mostly its a biased deal, seeing it was the first Gundam i ever saw but its still a favorite design overall, though on the other hand the Wing Zero design of Okawara is now my REAL personal fav.

Deathscythe (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01d.htm) : A personal Favorite and possibly the best of the four designs.

Deathscythe Hell (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01d2.htm) : Interesting to learn i cant stand this design, too ornate and it for some reason annoys me.

Heavyarms (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01h.htm) : Its an ok design but nothing like the Katoki Version.

Heavyarms Kai (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01h2.htm) : Same remark as the Heavyarms

Sandrock (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01sr.htm) : Its ok and a great proportion but i like the Sandrock Katoki Version a little better.

Sandrock Kai (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01sr2.htm) : Same Remark as Sandrock

Shenlong (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01s.htm) : Great Design and rivals the other Four.

Altron (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-01s2.htm) : Its a Mean Suit but the Altron EW looks more Intimidating…though on the other hand it has more weapons.

Wing Zero (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/w/xxxg-00w0.htm) : This Rivals the Wing Gundam for #1 in my book and quite possibly my most favorite Gundam Wing design of all time.

Hajime Katoki

Wing (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/katoki/xxxg-01w.htm) : Quite Possbily my least favorite Gundam design…dont get me wrong it has a formidable loadout but it looks too cumbersome and the wings seem too damn big.

Deathscythe (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/katoki/xxxg-01d.htm) : Its an ok Design but i like the Okawara (AKA “TV”) Version a little better.

Deathscythe Hell (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/endlesswaltz/xxxg-01d2.htm) : Quite possibly my more favored D-Scythe Hell Design and mor superior and DAMN more intimidating…my only complaint on this suit is that they removed its Katar Beam Sheild.

Heavyarms (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/katoki/xxxg-01h.htm) : A far superior design and by the Master Grade Kit is alot more practical and better looking…though on the other hand i dont get why they put the knife on the side then on the under when the cutting edge is unable to get at the enemy without damaging the arm…but hey.

Heavyarms Kai (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/endlesswaltz/xxxg-01h2.htm) : A VASTLY Superior Design and more agile than its TV cousin…and it doesnt hurt it has FOUR FREAKING GATS! yeat it kinda does away with the knife but honestly if they were to put some Beam Daggers (AT LEAST) on this and its predecessor then it would be a better overal Design.

Sandrock (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/katoki/xxxg-01sr.htm) : A little more ornate and i kinda like it but that those Heat Swords are a little TOO big for my taste.

Sandrock Kai (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/endlesswaltz/xxxg-01sr2.htm) : Same Remark as the Sandrock

Shenlong (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/katoki/xxxg-01s.htm) : Its more Trimmed down from its TV Cousin but i like it and it rivals its forementioned TV counterpart.

Altron (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/endlesswaltz/xxxg-01s2.htm) : Though it does remove the Tail Gun (If im not mistaken) and the shieild, This thing is a hell of alot more intimidating than its TV Counterpart.

Wing Zero (http://www.mahq.net/mecha/gundam/endlesswaltz/xxxg-00w0.htm) : Though my brother loves this Design with a passion, i rank it as possibly THE WORST KATOKI DESIGN I HAVE EVER SEEN! for all you WZ Custom Fans out there…I DONT WANNA HEAR IT! i cant stand the angelic design. it may look good on paper, it may look good in animation, it may look great overall, but i cant stand that A) Its weapons have been Nerfed to an extent and B) IT ONLY SHOWS UP TWO FREAKING TIMES! No offense but its bloody overated and honestly in comparason between it and its TV Counterpart, the latter would whoop its ass a thousand times over.

And that my fellow Gundamaniacs is my analysis of the designs of Gundam Wing…Thank you…

Depending on the suit, i might prefer the TV version over the OVA, and vice versa.

Wing Gundam: It’s a toss up between the Okawara and Katoki versions. I prefer the aesthetics and features of the Katoki Wing. The extra Buster Rifle energy pacs. The leaner chassis. The big wings. I actually have the MG Ver Ka gunpla kit. I like the TV version alot too, but i have a few issue with it aesthetically…

Deathscythe: Katoki version. It just looks so much more threatening than the TV version, especially with the massive beam scythe and pointed feet.

Shenlong: Once again i prefer the leaner aesthetics of the Katoki ver. I am however unhappy that he removed the extending arm feature of the Shelong’s Dragon Fang.

Heavy Arms: What’s the difference?

Sandrock : Same as Heavyarms…

Wing Zero: The Okawara version LORDS over the Katoki version. I looks so fucking powerful, and it IS!!! I love playing with this Gundam in Dynasty Warriors Gundam 3. That Twin Buster RIfle and neo-bird mode puts this version up there with the Gods of the Gundam metaverse. The Katoki version may have looked way sweet, but it seemed weak compared the the TV ver. Having huge wing binders as a primary sense of motility was a flaw. If even one of those wings got shredded, its mobility will be cut in half. I also hated how similar it looked to the Ver Ka Wing. I’m aware that the Wing and the Zero are similar in design and in combat, but the TV versions were too completely separate designs. The Katoki versions are pretty much the same except for color scheme and armaments/system features. And of course the wings. As a kid i would have given it too the Ver Ka, but as an adult i gotta go with the TV ver.

Deathscythe Hell: Same as the Katoki Deathscythe. It’s such an intimidating suit, and those huge batwings put it over the top. I wish it still possessed that Buster Shield though. The thing that sucks when comparing the two is that fact that you don’t really get to see the Katoki DH Custom put in work with its active cloak like you do in the tv series. Based on visual presentation, the TV version lords over the OVA ver. Think about all the classic scenes with the Deathscythe Hell TV ver. The scene when it and the Altron first emerge. The scene when it appeared in space and was invisibe to the Leo’s cameras. The scene when Duo dueled the rebuilt Mercurius and Veayate. The TV version is too classic to compare.

Altron: Thats a tough one to call. I love the midrange capability that the TV version has with that Scorpion Tail beam cannon. I love its design as well. As with the Wing Zero, i feel that the Katoki vers lost too much power in retcon, but design wise i feel it looks cooler than the TV version (sometimes).

HeavyArms Kai: Four gatling guns. 'Nuff said

Sandrock Kai: Never cared for either version. Not a fan of Sandrock or Quattra…

took the words right off my keyboard…kudos Thumbs up and whatnot :stuck_out_tongue:

I prefer Katoki’s UC redsigns since they really don’t mess with the feel of the suit just reproportions the more clunky ones.

Personally with the WE Designs I prefer the Heavyarms Kai, looks better IMO, then again it’s basically repainted, the WZC is nice but if you gave it WZ’s normal wings and not that angel stuff on there now I’d like it allot better, mainly like the paint job. I prefer Katoki’s normal Wing vastly though. I also like Katoki’s normal Heavyarms more as well, Besides that, really don’t have an opinion on it.

Wing wasn’t my first series (G was) so I don’t have Nostalgia for the old suis so I guess that’s why I like some of Katoki’s work, not saying I don’t like Okawara’s personally I prefer more of his Wing stuff.

They both have pro’s and cons IMO.

lol thanks man

I like the EW designs for the Altron, HeavyArms, and DeathScythe Hell. Everything else I prefer the non-EW designs or I’m fine with either way, especially the Wing Zero. As dramatic as the wings are on the WZC, it just doesn’t make sense to me. Same goes for the Wing EW version. Too flashy.

I like every EW design more than the original in every suit except for Heavyarms Kai and Sandrock Kai. The Wing Zero EW is my favorite MS of all time.

I thought Heavy Arms in red was way better than the recolour in EW. Might I ask why Sandrock over Sandrock Kai though?

I like prefer most of the TV versions over the Katoki redesigns.

I never liked sandrock tv I prefer the Non ova katoki version over the purple one.

Of course Wing Zero TV blows away custom in every way.

And another member takes the words right off my keyboard. Also to follow up on my analyisis a rating of the suits on a scale of 1-10

Kunio Okawara

Wing: 9

Deathscythe: 10

Heavyarms: 3

Sandrock: 4

Shenlong: 3

Altron: 4

Sandrock Kai: 4

Heavyarms Kai: 3

Deathscythe Hell: 1

Wing Zero: 10

Hajime Katoki

Wing:2

Deathsythe: 5

Heavyarms: 5

Sandrock: 4

Shenlong: 4

Altron: 7

Sandrock Kai: 5

Heavyarms Kai: 10

Deathsythe Hell: 10

Wing Zero: 1

WZC gets allot of hate. I guess it’s well placed on that wings thing.

But personally if I could get it’s Paint Job on a Normal Wing Zero, then I’d be one hell of a happy camper. Still prefer Katoki’s Wing though always will, don‘t know why just do. Though I prefer that early Green Wing to it, looks more militaristic to me which dosen‘t happen enough in a Main Gundam, really besides The Ground type and the Ez8 none of them scream military.

Still WZ>>>>WZC over all, but that blue and white paint job is pretty good looking IMO. Guess I’m just tired of old Gundam White, Blue, Red, Yellow.

Like I said on the other, the only other suits I had an opinion on was the Heavyarms Kai Custom, looks better has more weapons, personally I think the orange on it looked, meh at best, but the blue looks great. The other suits I can go either way, well I guess I prefer the DHC to the normal DH.

Sorry I meant Kai for both of them.

Well, let’s do this quickly.

To start with, I do love all WING and EW designs.

However, I find some designs weaker (that signifies one suit is worse equipped than another one or it lacks stength )
Essentially, the WING designs seem to be bulkier, whereas Katoki Hajime’s drafts oustand by their forcefully dynamic designs.

Before I begin judging all of them seperately, I’d like for the reading to be aware of the fact, that the EW (the 2nd ones, NOT THE FIRST ONES) were the first ones to appear.

WING GUNDAM :

Well, this one is special for certain. I reckon, the WING design looks better just by the looks. However, the 01WK also has a speical signature/note. IMO, that’s a close battle but I guess 01W looks better. (TV Version is superior to the EW version)

Wing Gundam Zero. Everyone who’s been a member on these forums long enough ought to be aware of my opinion concerning 00W0 and 00W0K.

00W0 (TV) I consider to be the better one, undoubtedly.

Deathscythe : Hell yes, Deathscythe! (Google Pictures -> Turn off “safe search” -> type “XXXG-01DK” in -> Profit )

Alright. This one is a tough one. Each one of them deserves a 10 of 10. The 01DK clearly has more white (white color) applied to its body than the TV version. Its outward appearance is likely to frighten me indeed. It’s a new, refreshing design. However, on the other hand, it appears to have been alienated from the other D-Scythes. I still like it.
To concern myself with the TV Version; this thing is pure eyecandy. The color sheme is balanced and it doesn’t looks heavy or bulky at all. IT’S CLEAN AND WELL-DESIGNED.

Now to the Deathscythe Hell :

I don’t comprehend why there are so many hating the XXXG-01D2. I fancy this one. It’s glaringly the strongest of all D-Scythes. It possess the strongest beam-scissors (there are small thrusters attached to the back of its blades). It’s also equipped with the buster rilfe which is an important trait of D-Scythe’s. However, the wings could actually look better. The Wings don’t compare to its Hajime Katoki version at all.

The D-scythe Hell Custom obtains the gold for the best design. Taking a look at it, everyone is supposed to conceive why I label it as the best-looking.
But why the heck isn’t it supplied with the same weaponery as the TV Version is ? It’s really pitiful for it not to be as strong as its TV Version! IT 'S the most attractive of amongst the D-Scythe group. Why the heck is it so weak ?
Where is its backpack thruster situated?
Why doesn’t it acquire any ECM jammers ?

Well, to sum up my assessment a little, it seems for Ha. Katoki to have run out of ideas after he had drafted the main body. He did a really good job on the main body but totally failed to elaborate its weapons.
Damnit that’s a shame.

To summarize again :

The 01D and the 01DK do both look good and have their own, personal look.
The 01D2 is the strongest and I favor it most, being the strongest amongst those four. The only thing I criticize is his wings. They could look better, by being wide and entangling the MS’ body.
The 01D2K looks best, being painted black everywhere. Its main body looks great but it seems to be the weakest of those four. Shame on Hajime Katoki, he seems to have done really badly here.

Heavyarms :

The more missles you are dighted with, the better you get. Same applies to the gatiling guns.

The 01HK outruns the TV Version IMO. It is capable of performing everything the TV version is able to do. Additonally, its gatling gun has a transcending quality. Hence the 01HK wins this.

Now this is getting interesting. The 01H2 vs. The 01H2K.

I like the 01H2K. I am unable to figure out what the TV version was doing or thinking, generating the 01H2’s design. Sorry, but a few more missles and a further gatling is NEVER going to do it.
To concentrate on the H2K, it surpasses all the other Heavyarms. It’s called “the Gatling king” for a reason, you know. However, considering it’s stripped off its melee weaponery, I am bound to classify this a support unit, unfortunately.

Note : The Heavyarms’ construction is sometimes conisdered to be fairly rotten. That’s because some people expect it to be better with thicker armor.

Sandrock :

The EW versions provide better armor and (confirmedly) bigger Heat shotles
I fancy the EW designs.

However, there are 2 things for me to emphasise and to illustrate before I proceed to Shenlong :

The Sandrock 01SR is a real buddy. It sacrifices itself for Quatre to espace from the shuttle base safely.
The Sandrock 01SR2 is supported by the ZERO system.

Shenlong :

The “You’re weaker than me” Gundam.

I don’t know much about the 01SK, so I’ll skip the first generation.

The second generation is a tough one for me to decide. They have similar weapons. However, the 01S2K’s dragon-fangs are much stronger and exceed the 01S2’s range by FAR.
The 01S2 is given a firethrower hidden next to its fangs.

Conclusionally, it all depends on your predilections. If you intend to eliminate as many as possible, go with the TV version. If you plan to duel someone, choose the EW version.

Epyon :

The EW is actually very much the same as the TV Version. It’s additional features are just for show.

Tallgeese :

The Tallgeese I and II are literally the same. I am unable and I’ve always been unable to estimate it properly. However, not underestimating it, I acknowledge this to be stronger than the first gen. WING models.

The Tallgeese III be badass, fo’ sure. This boy be gonna whip yo’ ass from earth to lagrange 5 in no time, I swear. This be defeatin’ the other EWs rapidly. This is no grunt suit, mah boy, no grunt suit!

Katoki shouldn’t have touched the original designs. But Bandai just had to insult and mess up the timeline and events before Endless Waltz just to sell more models and toys. Guess artistic integrity goes out the window when money is introduced. The redesigns were so damn unnecessary, and silly to boot! I mean… angel wings… on a giant robot. Why?! It can’t transform into a bird, it has no shield, but seems to pull it’s beam saber and twin buster rifles (too damn long if you ask me) out of nowhere! The Altron gundam… eh, the best looking out of all of them, but still not as good as the Altron designed by Kunio Okawara, whose designs actually look realistic, where as Katoki’s belong only in an anime. The Sandrock… two swords is all it has. They’re big swords to be sure, but they can but damaged and break. Then Sandrock is kinda screwed. It has no shield at all, but Katoki, in his infinite wisdom slapped Sandrock with “having the thickest metal of the gundams”. And no beam Uzi either. The hell? Now for the Goddamned Batma- I mean Deathscythe Hell CUSTOM. Bat wings… no propulsion system to be seen, and just a regular scythe, not that badass twin scissor scythe Deathscythe Hell had. And once again, no shield, which also served as a weapon. So glad DH is coming out as a Damashii figure, I’m getting all of them soon. And at last we arrive at Heavyarms Kai Custom. Trading in hot rod red, for depressing dark blue. With it’s two MASSIVE twin barrel Gatling guns, and just about every limb holding a small silo of misses. But of course, bullets and missiles are used up quickly. What then, Katoki? Can HA Custom fall back on its CQC combat knife? No! Cause it aint got one! Goes without saying that if they katoki and okawara gundams went head to head, the okawara gundams would stand tall in victory over their silly looking counterparts. And to hell with the Tallgeese III, we should have had the Epyon! Though wHo knows what silly mech Katoki would have turned it into.

I never got it either. Why in the world would they redesign them, and then retcon it? It doesn’t make any sense at all, and it would even contradict the Wing series itself.

I can’t say I hate the EW designs. They where nice in their own way, but EW being a sequel film to Wing, it was unnecessary, and confusing.

I originally thought that the EW designs where simply upgrades, but for Wing Zero it would be a downgrade, eh?

IMO, the Katoki redesigns were simply to give some fans an aesthetically upgraded version of what already existed. If not “aesthetically upgraded”, then simply another “artistic interpretation.” BANDAI simply wins because people will collect both series of suits as well as debate/care about the differences in the two interpretations. In that sense, BANDAI has already won.

I personlly think that Katoki’s suits are better, because I happen to appreciate the svelte ideal that he abides by as he redesigns the suits. I think that they look a lot better. I can’t help to be a girl about this but, seriously, Katoki’s WZC is so elegant. It’s stupidly impractical, sure, but boy does it look regal!

Yeah, but some TV designs have really grown on me. Particularly, this is my favourite Gundam of all time :

If this also gets a new HG, I’ll slap on the 3 times the number of wings on it. The more wings it gets, the better it is.

This is why it’s called Gundam Wing. Extra emphasis on Wings.