Gundam Seed Hate

Since being on this site I’ve noticed alot of Hate and dislike for gundam seed i havent finished the series yet but so far i think its pretty cool and i think Lacus Clyne is hott ,another bonus to watch. So whats wrong with this series ?

the Seed Series is ok to a certain degree. the only problem it has is Recycled animation. Seed Destiny…Facepalm…Wacky, you might wanna explain this one…

Y’know what, I think it’s best I ask this forum the same thing I asked Reddit a little while ago and see what you guys think about this matter:

As Gundam fans, which Mainstream Gundam Anime would you say get’s picked on the most out of all the ones out there?
Mainstream Gundam animes consist of: Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Gundam SEED, and Gundam 00. The answer to my question above should be obvious, of course. Out of all the Mainstream Gundam Animes out there, the Cosmic Era is without a doubt the most Controversial Era in all of Gundam.

It’s honestly something that has developed quite a negative reputation in the Gundam Community based on all the major problems it suffers from; one of these major problems being Gundam SEED Destiny in it’s entirety. When I saw the 1st Gundam SEED, I did enjoy it, but at the same time, I did notice quite a lot of flaws with it that I wished were patched up. Granted, Gundam SEED HD Remastering IS an improvement, the problem is: it didn’t fully solve the problem.
The Cosmic Era Timeline was meant to be a re-imagining of the Universal Century Timeline. In some ways, it did just that. But in most other ways, it fell flat on it’s face. And as a result, the Cosmic Era has become nothing but “The Joke Timeline” in the Gundam Community for haters, UC Fanboys, Wing Fanboys, etc… to pick on all the time.
Being someone who has been a fan of gundam for 16 years straight now, I’m honestly getting sick and tired of having to constantly explain everything that is wrong about the Cosmic Era Timeline to SEED Fanboys who deny the plainly obvious flaws, but at the same time: I really wish Gundam SEED was more than what it currently is with all of it’s major problems:

  • Kira and Lacus being complete Mary-Sue Characters without question.
  • Shinn Asuka being dropped as the main character in replace of Kira at the last minute in SEED Destiny, and thus having his entire character being pointlessly built up from the beginning and then having all of his character development completely thrown out the window.
  • Kira being always right and never wrong about everything that comes out of his mouth.
  • Kira inexplicably cheating death 3 times in a row with no explanation as to how he survived each time.
  • Mu La Flaga inexplicably surviving a Lohengrin to the face at the end of SEED when it clearly showed his shattered helmet floating through space.
  • The new cast in Gundam SEED Destiny being overshadowed by the Old Cast because apparently the new cast wasn’t as well recieved by the fans.
  • The Constant use of Flashbacks and Re-Cap Episodes.
  • Gundam SEED having as much Recycled Stock Footage as Gundam Wing, and Gundam SEED Destiny have more recycled stock footage than Scooby Doo.
  • Massive unoriginality in the designs of Six Major Gundams in SEED Destiny, and in some cases: Mobile Suit Design that made absolutely no sense.
  • Vaguely and/or Unexplained Technology all over the place.
  • Athrun having the Same Exact Character Development Arc in SEED Destiny that he did in SEED.
  • Kira having absolutely NO character development at all in Destiny.
  • Pointless wasted characters such as Miguel Ayman and Heine Westenfluss.
  • SEED Destiny’s plot being in many ways just a mirror of Gundam SEED’s plot all over agian.

I hope that just answered your question about what’s wrong with SEED, btw. :wink:

This is all sounding like bad fanfiction. After enjoying Gundam SEED my first time around, I had EXTREMELY high hopes for SEED Destiny. I was hoping that they were going to improve on some of the problems that SEED had, but unfortunately it was quite the opposite. It really disappointed me to see SEED turn into nothing but a joke for haters to gripe on. Granted, I will say right now: I am a fan of what Gundam SEED currently is; except for Destiny. Gundam SEED right now, I still think is not TOO bad, and SEED Stargazer was actually Awesome! The only problem with it was that it was too short. I also found the SEED Astray mangas to be Very Enjoyable and with Much Better Story, and I do like how they at least tried to fix some of the plotholes in SEED. But unfortunately, they unintentionally made it worse by contradicting the events in the anime with the explanations they’ve provided for some of them.

My point here being: I know that Gundam SEED could have been a lot better than this. Mitsuo Fukuda; I understand he’s a huge fan of Tomino’s, but it seems to me that when he took on the job of doing Gundam SEED, there was still a lot about Gundam that he really didn’t fully understand. Gundam is not about Pretty-Boys in Mobile Suits blowing shit up with Superlasers and Beam Spam. It’s a war story. It’s not about Good Vs. Evil, but rather a War of Different Ideologies.
I think after reading all that, we can all pretty much agree here: What Gundam SEED really needs is NOT an HD Remastering. But rather, a Complete Series Reboot from scratch, and this time NOT done by Mitsuo Fukuda and his Wife. I believe that Gundam SEED can most definitely be fixed and it can really turn out to be a great re-imagining of the Universal Century Timeline if the proper time and effort was put into it.
I don’t blame Gundam SEED Destiny for sucking. It wasn’t it’s fault. It was all due to Bad Directing and Behind-The-Scenes Politics (including Fukuda’s Wife coming down with Brain Cancer during SEED Destiny’s Development). Which further reinforces that SEED really needs a Reboot due to all the problems that happened during it’s development. If SEED was able to get developed with an actual plan in mind, it would be able to turn out FANTASTIC.

So now, I want your opinion on this. Do YOU think that the Cosmic Era Timeline should be Completely Rebooted from the Ground Up?

I think you got that pretty downpat and cut and dried. and honestly couple all this with the stuff i proposed in my Thread of a Remake of Destiny and i think the CE will be reborn as a better SEED series…

I think Gundam SEED is the sickest of the Gundam anime that have been dubbed next to 00. That said, The first episode of Destiny had me throwing up from the start. I mean really? It couldn’t have been that much more like the first episode of SEED. I choose not to recognize destiny as part of SEED’s story at all, because SEED ended spectacularly and was great all the way through in my opinion. While I personally love the series, I also believe that it could have been better like without all the stock footage.

I think Wing is the worst out of the mainstream Gundam Anime although the mecha designs are great.

Yeah, now dont get me wrong the WZ from EW is ok but it cant beat the WZ from the original series :smiley:

I think the ver ka wing gundam beats them both. lol

It does.
Wing Zero Custom has better mobile suit design than the original Wing Zero; even if it seems more Overcumbersome; the Design makes sense due to it being called “WING Gundam Zero”.

Thanks for the much needed info and opnion

Like wacky I also wish that they would reboot and redo SEED. I’m a fan of SEED, but like wacky those problems are annoying. And if fixed, SEED could be an amazing anime.

Godness, are you serious? Do really think Lacus’s hot? I don’t regard her as that and I affirm I am hetero xD

Yea shes hot what wrong with her, shes slim cute face seems like she coo lol if she was real

I don’t understand the hate for this series. I also think it’s kind of pointless to get so exacerbated over ANY part of the Gundam franchise. Being able to point out every little detail that’s wrong with a series is JUST as bad as ranting about how AWESOME it is.

I like SEED and SEED Destiny. No, I don’t think it’s the best series ever and I don’t think Kira is Jesus and I don’t think the Strike Freedom is the best incarnation of any mech design ever - but they are all pretty okay.

I just feel like I need to give some counter points to WackyModder84’s points above:

I’m not sure what this means. So I do Question this :-P.

I think this happening (while done only for “ratings”) is so true to life. How many people go through such devastation and try so hard to live a life that somehow will make everything right, somehow validate all the crap that has happened to them only to end up with nothing and being so unimportant. I think this adds so much to Shinn’s over all character. There is development, even if he ends up taking a back seat, he still develops as a character and one can really sympathize with him for everything that has happened even when he is being a whiny brat.

Every series has this character, it’s just that Kira was blatantly written to be a saint. Treize comes to mind here. That guy was always right, always made the right moves and said the right thing, even when you thought he was an evil bastard, you knew he was right. But Kira also was supposedly genetically perfect and had a pure heart, so how else are you supposed to show these traits? You make him unstoppable in combat and infallible.

Heero cheated death, Zechs cheated death, Char cheated death on a number of occasions. This is nothing new to Gundam. I mean when Heero self-destructed the Wing Gundam, did you see that pool of blood he was laying in? Yeah, he basically bled out completely and should have been dead right there.

Okay, this one I’ll give you! Fukuda reportedly just decided out of the blue that Mu La Flaga survived when SEED Destiny was first being discussed.

Would you rather them just cancel the series all together? Ratings are important to a show’s production. If the fans want more Athrun and Kira and they show it by not watching, they’re going to get what they want or the series gets canceled.

I hate flashbacks and clip shows as much as anyone, so another point I will concede here.

The two series, I feel have about the same amount of stock footage. But you have to cut some costs in animation. Keep in mind, Turn A was supposed to be the last Gundam. Fukuda wasn’t given the budget that Tomino would have gotten.

Okay this argument deserves a lot more than I can give right now. Suffice it to say, I feel your arguments against the Destiny Gundam and the Strike Freedom (and yes I’ve watched your half hour long rants on YouTube) don’t hold water in most cases. I would like to point out that none of the points you’ve made about either suit is “proof” of anything. Proof implies that something is proven to be true beyond shadow of a doubt. You have merely given evidence of your opinions on why these Gundams “suck” when I think most of the things you’ve mentioned are why I LIKE the Destiny Gundam and the Strike Freedom. And when you say these Gundams are just ripping off other Gundams… EVERY Gundam after the FIRST Gundam has ripped off another Gundam, period. Even the first Gundam was inspired by other Mecha. Nothing is original.

Wing, G, X, Star Wars, Ender’s Game, how many other Sci-Fi series do you want me to list that have vague or unexplained tech all over the place? It’s made up tech! It doesn’t have to be realistically explained.

Some people just can’t make up their minds. Char does the same thing after Zeta, goes back to Zeon (albeit he’s in charge in CCA) but he basically reverts back to being Amuro’s rival, being the Red Comet, and complaining about Lalah. I think at least Athrun has a better story arch in Destiny than Char does in CCA.

He already had his character fully developed in SEED, he was realized as the perfect coordinator. How much further can you go with him? Does Indian Jones’s character keep developing every movie? Better Example: Duo Maxwell has like zero character development in Wing, yet he is still a great character. He’s the same free spirited, fun loving guy through thick and thin the whole time.

This one kind of pisses me off because Heine could have been such an AWESOME character, a real balance to Kira. But just like with Shinn’s character taking a back seat, this kind of thing is also true to life. So many great War Heros are struck down in battle, it’s a shock and dramatic and sad. I think that’s why these things happen.

Just like Gundam Wing is the Universal Century from first Gundam to CCA condensed down into a 49 episode anime. Yeah. Although I think Destiny was different enough from SEED that it didn’t feel like it was a direct copy. I felt Destiny was more along the lines of Zeta than SEED but still had it’s own over all plot.

Like I said, I like SEED and SEED Destiny. Not the greatest two series, but they are good. I think this whole bashing SEED thing is ridiculous and it’s old hat and it should die. I think claiming SEED and Kira and Strike Freedom as the best things in the world and then fighting tooth and nail to defend them as such is also pointless and should die.

Bare this in mind: Turn A was supposed to be it for Gundam. Without SEED/SEED Destiny and Fukuda with all his flip-flopping and vague story telling, Gundam would have taken a fall. SEED kept the franchise going so we could eventually move on and experience the awesome 00 series and the AGE series and who knows? If Gundam had died off after Turn A, would we have Unicorn?

I think SEED deserves credit for at least that, keeping Gundam going and bringing in new fans so it could continue.

Lets lay this all to rest and just enjoy the hobby and the animes and the mangas without causing a firestorm over series’s that are a decade old (SEED) and almost a decade old (Destiny). It’s like complaining about the WMD’s that we never found in Iraq, WHATEVER, done, over with, move on.

Joe. You’re the man.

You don’t think Lacus is hot?

I have this to say to you

//youtu.be/W-SdeE5va1I

Oh, memories, I could sit and watch all two hours of Beavis and Butt-Head laughing. But Yeah Lacus is hot, not the hottest of Gundam Girls, but still hot. although sometimes I kinda would like to slap some duct tape over her mouth… of course if I’m going to do that might as well get out some rope to tie her up too :-P.

Honestly Meer Campbell is more attractive. But I like the submissive-no-self-confidence type when it comes to fantasy girls. :wink:

thanks for the breakdown Joe! i have issues responding without coming off as a ‘tick’… i agree this SEED topic/controversy should be laid down for a long permanent sleep… next thing we know we won’t be able to like certain kits ‘because they don’t meet what i thought it should have been’… or have people preaching at us about how not using a certain paint will cause us to spend an eternity using tshirt paint and a snail-shaped sponge or something else utterly ridiculous… at least this kind of thinking hasn’t made it into the modelling threads and cause me to stop visiting the forums… thanks again !

either I don’t simply find her beautiful generally, or I’m currently having problems regarding women as attractive.

What about Christina mckenzie? She appears to be more suitable…

1.) Mary-Sue Characters are basically the types of characters that are 100% completely FLAWLESS in Character Design and do absolutely no wrong and have the Best Powers from the start and are pretty much Invincible.
These types of characters are The Worst types of characters. They REEK of Bad fanfiction. They’re not interesting. These types of characters don’t create Drama or Tension whatsoever.
Btw, if you want proof that Lacus Clyne is a Mary-Sue incase you’re wondering, here’s your proof:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/116/lacusclyneisamarysue.png

2.) Ok, you wanna know the real reason why everyone has such a massive problem with Shinn? That’s easy, dude: He was never given the chance to develop his character.
I can name so many characters in fiction that do bad things, make bad decision, and do things on Impulse; but they learn from their mistakes and reflect on their actions.
It’s human nature, dude. Shinn was waiting for that moment of clarity, but because everyone in Japan was in love with Kira and Lacus, they decided “Screw it, get rid of him!”.
Let’s compare Kamille from Zeta Gundam with Shinn; since Shinn was supposed to be Kamille’s re-imagined successor.
Kamille had plenty of time to grow as a character. He Learns from his mistakes, comes to a realization, etc…
This is all just Basic Storytelling, dude. This should come as Common Sense to people who write fiction. Main Characters usually have to end up in a low-point before eventually rising up in the Climax.
In Shinn’s case, his low point was Defeating Kira when he was piloting the Freedom and then being brainwashed and manipulated by Durandal. That was Shinn’s low-point in Destiny.
The thing that pisses me off to no end about Shinn was that the setup for his Character to develop was ALL RIGHT THERE!
For Shinn to come to a realization and think: “Wow…everything I’ve been doing up to this point has been wrong. o_o”. THERE YA GO! That would have been a great way to develop him, and it would distinguish himself from other Main Gundam Characters before him!
But NOPE! Instead of developing him, they completely drop his character; thus, wasting all that time developing him for no reason, just to have Kira come back from the Dead for the 3rd time in a row, take over as the Main Character, and pad everything out.
That’s pretty weak story-telling. >_>

3.) May I remind you once again about what Mary-Sue Characters are?
Pure-Heart Characters still reek of bad fanfiction. How many characters in fiction are complete douchebags but are still way more interesting as characters?
EXAMPLES: Light Yagami (Death Note). Lelouche Vi Britannia (Code Geass). Alucard (Hellsing). Dante (Devil May Cry). ETC…
There is nothing wrong with characters having flaws, dude. It’s Human.
And also, Kira being “The Ultimate Coordinator” has nothing to do with him being uber-powerful or anything like that.
Rau Le Creuset was the one that explained just WHY Kira was the Ultimate Coordinator to begin with.
It’s because of the fact that Kira was the only coordinator in existance to be born from an Artificial Womb. THAT’S IT. That’s the only reason why he is classified as "The Ultimate Coordinator.
The fact that everyone uses that as an excuse to try to defend Kira just goes to show that they really weren’t paying attention to that part during Gundam SEED… >_>

4.) Zechs coming back in Endless Waltz was way more plausible to debate on. Even though, yes, Zechs is semi-guilty of that problem, I still do admit.
As for Char cheating death: If you’re taking about survivng that explosion in the Hyaku Shiki from Zeta Gundam, that plot-hole was completely filled with an explanation in the Special Edition of Zeta Gundam. Recommend you take a look at that if you haven’t already.
As for Kira cheating death in SEED twice and in Destiny a 3rd time, the situations he was in were 100% physically impossible to survive, and they gave us No Rational Explanation for Each of the 3 times he did it.
Infact…uh…I hope I’m not going to get in trouble for this, but I did infact make a Rant on YouTube about Kira’s 3rd “Jesus Yamato” Moment that took place during the Freedom VS. Impulse Battle.

Check it out for yourself (WARNING: Severe Language)

//youtu.be/EcWHKT8eH8s

5.) If SEED Destiny was already that negatively looked on for it being the way it was, then the only ones to blame for that happening were Mitsuo Fukuda and his Wife for having Bad Writing and Bad Directing.
Honestly, if SEED Destiny was going to end up cancelled as a result, better to put it out of it’s misery than to have it make everything even worse than they already are.
Gundam X seemed to make the right call on that part with it only having 39 Episodes. But now a days, Gundam X is growing more and more popular; even with only it’s 39 Episodes.

6.) No offense, Joe. But using the budget as a shield is nothing but an excuse. I’ve had SEED Fanboys do that with me all the time. >_>
SEED Destiny has more than enough budget to get the job done. The problem is: they were spending it on pointless things. Such as T.M.Revolution’s Voice Acting, as an example.
I highly doubt SEED Destiny was made with an actual plan in mind; since Fukuda’s Wife came down with Brain Cancer and was turning in scripts late.
Honestly, why they even bothered to keep going with SEED Destiny is beyond me if your wife was the main writer and she came down with a fatal illness like that.
But like I said: SEED only had about as much Recycled Animation as Gundam Wing and Macross 7. SEED Destiny takes that to a whole new extent by not only recycling it’s own animation, but at the same time: recycling scenes from the First SEED in there as well. It’s an anomaly of animation. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any animation stance this half-assed before in Gundam.

7.) Like I said before. All I showed was that those Six Major Gundams do infact have Unoriginality in them. When I said “The Ultimate Proof as to why these gundams SUCK!” that was merely my opinion there.
All I did was reveal the unoriginality and let everyone else decide if they love or hate the gundams after learning more about them.

8.) May I remind you that with the exception of G Gundam and Turn A Gundam, gundam is a Real-Robot Mecha Franchise that helped pave the way for other Real-Robot Mecha Franchises to spawn; such as Macross for example.
In terms of the Universal Century Timeline; and even Gundam Wing and Gundam 00, you can pretty much look up anything in regards to technology in those timelines, and you will get very detailed explanations as to how they work.
In Gundam SEED; it’s like Half of those detailed explanations just went missing and it’s as if they think Mainstream Gundam Fans are morons who don’t care about important things like that and only like Yaoi Pretty-Boys in Gundams blowing stuff up with Superlasers and Beam-Spam. Gundam Fans (for the most part, at least) are not stupid, dude. >_>

9.) Char didn’t stop doing what he wanted to do at all. He was still fighting against the earth with the A.E.U.G. just like Zeon were doing in the first place.
It’s just that he was fighting with a different group to do just that. He went became the leader of Neo-Zeon in CCA to force humanity to come into space so that they could all become newtypes.
That was his goal after everything he’s been through in Zeta with his experiences with Kamille and Amuro. Char’s goals didn’t change a damn bit and his character development kept going and did not reset at all.
In Athrun’s case, it’s as if he learned absolutely nothing from the 1st Gundam SEED, and all the stuff he experienced there was just forgotten. They totally flip-flopped him.

10.) Exactly! Kira had no inner conflict to deal with in SEED Destiny. He gained nothing from any of the events that happened there. He was just there for pure fan-service @ first, and decided at the last minute to come back as the main character and pad everything out.
Remember Zeta Gundam: Neither Amuro NOR Char managed to take a way any of the spotlight from Kamille and yet both of them still grew as characters; despite having nowhere near as much screen-time as Kamille did.

11.) Ok, you wanna know why these characters were killed off as quickly as they were? It was because T.M.Revolution was the one that voiced both those characters, and he was charging Sunrise a lot of money to voice act; so much to the point where they could only afford to keep him Voice Acting for about 2-3 episodes. Honestly, if T.M.Revolution was going to charge that much to the point where they have to kill off two characters that could have been great, then you really have to ask yourself: Was it really worth it?

12.) I never said SEED Destiny was a DIRECT copy. But what I am saying is that quite a lot of the events in SEED Destiny seem like a mirror of things happening in Gundam SEED.
The 1st Scene in SEED Destiny was pretty much an exact copy of the scene from Heliopolis; since the Gundams were stolen in the same exact way, and there was only one gundam left that could fight them off.

While it was unexplained as to how Kira survived the explosion in the epic Aegis Vs. Strike battle, I think it’s safe to assume he just got out of the gundam before the explosion and they didn’t show it.