Firearms

I double checked the rules and saw nothing against a firearms thread. I am a firearms owner living in the USA and I wanted to see if anyone else was a gun enthusiast on gundamforums.com or wanted to discuss firearms. I ask a couple of things to keep the conversation on topic.

Rules

  1. Please keep political stuff to a minimum. Unfortunately with gun ownership comes the political strife over them. I think thought out generalizations are ok (such as “a certain group of people want x and y is why”) but political talk can quickly degrade into a nasty flame war. A comment like “Such and such group are a bunch of retards” is probably best left unsaid, even if I agree with you.

  2. Please practice safe handling procedures taking photographs. Unload your firearms when not in use for pictures and don’t point it at anything you don’t intend to destroy.

  3. Don’t post anything illegal. And by illegal, I mean stupid stuff like pointing guns at people.

That’s all I can really think of excluding a moderator jumping in and adding anything.



I own a Bersa Thunder 380 plus and a Smith and Wesson M&P 22. I’m looking at getting a .22lr caliber AR (armalite) style platform for economy plinking (shooting targets and cans). I found a store in town that will build me a platform with a red dot sight for $385. It was pretty solid and surprisingly light. The Thunder 380 plus is a .380 ACP handgun with a 15 round magazine. It is my conceal carry weapon and I have 15 jacketed hollow points in the magazine. In my country it is legal- and in most states a fundamental, inalienable right to keep and bear arms in defense of ourselves, our loved ones and the state. My M&P 22 is a .22lr handgun I use for shooting targets. I like this particular pistol over other .22lr pistols because usually it eats whatever I feed it and it’s accurate. I’ve had problems with it though- but the issues have been fixed. My one complaint about the pistol is that the ‘wing’ safety is very annoying.

I may upgrade to a 9mm in the future because I am able to handle 9mm recoil a lot better now. However- contrary to what my father says- I notice a difference in recoil between .380acp and 9mm. My all metal Bersa (rubber grips) handles recoil much better, but is small and light enough to offer capacity and accuracy without sacrificing concealability or reliability. It was enough of a good buy that I recommended it to a friend who buys almost exclusively Sig Sauer, and he fell in love with the Bersa CC model (a smaller version of the plus).

I went to a shooting range a few years ago in high school with an old buddy of mine and his dad. Note: almost all of these guns belong to my buddy’s dad. I got to shoot off a .44 Magnum, an AR-15 chambered for the .223 Remington, a Mosin-Nagant M44, a single-shot bolt-action shotgun (I can’t tell you the bore and/or gauge as I can’t remember), a .25-06 bolt action hunting rifle, a Marlin 9mm rifle, and of course a 12 gauge shotgun.

I definitely fit the bill of a firearms enthusiast. I am not the end all be all expert on weapons but i do have experience. I have my training from the Marines. And im a hobbyist gunsmith. I like the M&P and i agree with you about the safty it does get annoying. I cant agree with a 380 though the round has a terrible track record. Have you had any trouble with your bersa? Lighter frames tend to transfer more recoil into your wrist and people with weaker wrists tend to have more reliability issues because they flick the weapon causing the slide to not travel far enough with an under powered round. And the round has stoping power issues. A round you might consider is the Federal Hydra shok. They help solve the take down issue by crating a larger temoprary cavity and more hydrostatic shock. But i agree completely with you on 9mm damn good round. Personaly i chose that or my .40 S&W.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=399

If you already own a AR in .223 or 5.56 CCMG makes a drop in coversion to .22 Lr. Its not one hundred percent reliable but if your just plinking then it wont matter.

https://www.cmmginc.com/category_s/1851.htm

Id love to upload pics of my firearms but photo bucket isnt working for me.

Recoil matters more about the gun you shooting than the caliber of the ammo its using, the lower the bore axis and the “heft” of the gun makes a big difference. My mom has a Bersa Thunder CC, its a nice gun, plenty accurate and after it was broken in, plenty reliable. I learned to shoot pistols with a .45 and I can shoot my gun pretty well. My pistol is a S&W 4566, its a pretty big and heavy gun, so the recoil is pretty managable. Its also built like a tank, I’ve ran the cheapest ammo I could barely afford and after close to if not more that 1000 rounds I’ve had zero failures, heres a picture on and btw I conceal carry with this

This is my .22 rifle, its a Savage 6A, its a pre-WWII model because of the checkering on the stock. Its a pretty fun semi-auto and its been in my family for a long time, it was my grandfathers at some point that my dad got off his, and I started shooting it when I was about 12-13 I believe. Its somewhat reliable, but its a “click-clack” rifle so its not exactly the best design, everything has to be put together just right for it to work correctly. Its pretty accurate also

I also have a Mossberg 500 with a riot barrel, I did have a pistol grip but really hated it so I went back to the original stock. I used to hunt with it (I had a stock barrel then) but I sucked at hunting because I have terrible luck. I would get a great deer stand and I wouldn’t ever see a deer walk by but damn if my best friend didn’t sit in it for one hour before I deer crossed his path lol its pretty much the home defense gun now

I plan to buy a new pistol in the next few months and I’m really eyeing up the SCCY CPX-2, it looks like a nice conceal carry pistol, 10+1 of 9mm is appealing since my current gun is only 8+1 plus its a smaller package. I would also love a revolver, my old law enforcement teacher invited me to his personal range and let me shoot some of his revolvers and lets just say I’m hooked.

I disagree with .380 not being a good enough caliber, its pretty similar to the .38 Special ballistics wise and the .38 Special has a proven track record. Granted the .380 is the bottom line for me and I would feel plenty good carrying it. That said shoot what you feel is best for you, my moms BF carrys a .22 caliber pistol and he is capable of unloading it fast into a target and keep it with in a credit card at 10 yards

I think I shoot fairly well with my Bersa. Outside of break-in I have had zero jams. I am getting more accurate with a 9mm though. When I lived in Illinois (I left the state when I learned there was a ban on bearing arms) I rented a glock 19 and liked it. I shot it fairly well. It was ‘slightly’ snappy but that’s because it’s a polymer frame gun. My father has a Springfield XD and I can’t get used to that firearm- I think it kicks like a mule but that’s just me. Every single handgun I’ve tried so far, at 10 yards was in the kill zone, but I feel comfortable right now with my .380acp. I had the chance to fire an all metal 1911 in .45acp and loved it. The recoil was extremely manageable.

I fired my first rifle months ago and I enjoyed it. At 25 yards I was fairly accurate. It was an old mag tech 250 and after that session at the range a buffer piece broke and the rifle was no good anymore. Something I would like to do again. Go to the range with a rifle; not break it :x

I agree with you about the bore axis. A higher bore axis causes more muzzle flip therefor less recoil is being used to drive the weapon. But you said recoil is more important. Thats basically what it comes down too with the 380s reliability issues. Unless your hand loading the round tends to be to underpowered to cycle the weapon causing you to need a lighter recoil spring. And the 380 isnt all that similar to the .38 spl in ballistics. He .38 spl has more kinetic energy because of the heavier projectile where the 380 has a lighter projectile but a faster round. The largest 380 i can find are 95 gr. and the lightest .38 spl are 110 gr.

Nice. I’ve always been a fan of rifles over handguns or shotguns. The Mosin-Nangant I fired years ago is chambered for the 7.62x54mmR (I call it the Russian Round). That thing has some kick. On another note, on other rifle my buddy’s dad had was a .22 bolt-action action. The magazine held 13 rounds and I could fire them all of within a minute and be accurate at 50 yards out.

I am not a gun owner. That said, I have no problem with allowing people to own guns as long as there are bounds of reason and good regulations (as there are with cars for example). However, I fail to see what purpose a Magnum holds for an ordinary citizen except to kill people. It’s not a hunting weapon like a shotgun or rifle, and it goes above and beyond the home defense that a weapon like a regular pistol provides (although one could argue over magazine size for that one). Please enlighten me, gun owners, as to why such weapons should be legal (and don’t quote the second amendment, there have always been legally enforceable limits on constitutional rights; for instance, I can’t scream “Fire!” in a crowded theater, just because I have the constitutional right to free speech).

I’m not trying to pick a fight. I just want to take the opportunity to ask some (presumably) responsible gun owners what their views are on such topics, since none of the people that I have contact with on a regular basis in real life are gun owners.

The Magnum is an iconic gun. People wanna be able to fire the Dirty Harry gun, even if it’s not loaded it’s intimidating. You think some ass robbing your house at 3am is gonna take the chance of getting a large hole put in him when he sees the Magnum. Most people who rob a house use a small caliber pistol for ease of concealment.

That said I’m not a gun person per say, I like learning about them but I doubt I’d ever own one. I’m partial to the Colt 1911 .45, the M14 rifle and that friggin’ auto shotgun the AA-12.

So it’s a unnecessary power trip thing, like SUV/Hummer drivers who never go off the road. Great. I was afraid of that. Anyone else have an answer?

Pretty much what Exia said is the only reason someone would get a .44 Magnum. Personally I’d like to get an old Colt like M1911 .45 or an even older Peacemaker.

@Exia: those are choice guns. Though, I hate the AA-12 whenever I play MW2.

Here’s another one: Many of the public mass shootings in the US (that didn’t end in suicide) were only able to be put down while the perpetrator was reloading. Knowing this, would any of you guys take issue with Congress passing a law that limited the legal magazine size (for example, from 15 rounds to 10)?

Hmmm… tough call. Let me back to you on that.

Even then most times it’s experienced gun owners who buy them, there’s no way a first time shooter could handle a .44 Magnum. The recoil after the first shot would set it flying back into their face. The Magnum is a lot of handgun for anyone.

Thanks. I just love automatic shotguns, such a fun thing to say haha.

Alright my preamble, I’m a gun owner, living in a anti-state. Last year the legislature of Maryland jumped on the bandwagon of more laws against the law abiding, despite massive protests against it. Instead of banning weapons, we need to work on mental health in this country, as proven by every one of the events that happened already. Anyways, the toys, tools, or deadly weapons, depending on your outlook/terminology. (Toy’s is a light hearted comment only, I am serious about my firearms, and safety, but whatever) We also can’t get carry permits.

I currently own 2 firearms, a Springfield Armory XD 9mm service, and a Colt LE6920 5.56 AR-15 Carbine. The XD uses the standard capacity 16 round magazines, and my AR uses standard capacity 20, and 30 round mags. As to some of you talking about recoil, I fire +P+ 9mm out of mine, and it has less recoil then a pressure washer.

On to Zeta-G’s questions,

First, and foremost, it’s not like a soccer mom’s suv.

The term Magnum was originally from an over sized champagne bottle. A magnum rounds differences from regular cartridges is that the casing are typically longer, and has more powder in it then other rounds. This increases the amount of pressure in the barrel when fired, causing the bullet to exit the barrel faster with more implied force. The draw backs of this are increased recoil, muzzle flash, and wear to the weapon. This is why many magnum style guns are built much heavier. They are also more expensive, in both cost of the firearm, and the ammunition price. (1/3rd increased cost and up.)

Magnum rounds were initially developed for hunting, mostly larger game in Africa, and a few in North America. We’re talking in the 1900’s here, and they were originally in rifles. Today however, both the 357 Magnum, and the 44 Magnum are used for hunting in many states across the country. The 44 Magnum round itself is powerful enough to take down both bears, and deer.

The first massively successful Magnum Pistol was the 357 Magnum. It uses the exact same bullet as the 38 Special, but adds a bit more heft to the round by adding additional powder. At the time of it’s development, most police forces used 38 Revolvers, however the 38 had very weak ballistics, and police where having issues of not being able to stop suspects, even after emptying their weapons in to them. After the development of the 357 many police departments switched to it. And this was back in the 1930’s. Heck Bruce Lee, the iconic Martial Arts master guy, carried a 357 Magnum in case anyone decided to try to fight him. (Conversely Chuck Norris guards his home with a 10 Gauge Shotgun (ouch)). In the 60’s a new magnum, this time the 44, was brought out, and San Francisco issued it to there police, this is where Dirty Harry got started. As time went on, female officers, and other things (cost per round, stuff like that) started to turn police away from the heavier magnums, and look for a easier to handle, and teach alternative. Then in the 80’s many police went to newer 9mm semi autos. These held more rounds, and was easier to train new recruits on, as well as make faster follow up shots. (since your aim will move quickly when firing a magnum). 9mm has had it’s own share of issues over the years, many calling it under powered, or various other things, and in the last 10 years, many have begun to switch again, this time to the 40s&w, which is 1mm wider then 9mm. Like the reasons 100 years ago, this is because, whether it be large game, or if needed, a person, if you have to shoot, it’s a decision that means taking a life. This means having enough force to guarantee stopping the target. Whether the threat is 4 legged or 2, I don’t know about you, but more power the better. Personally, I’d say forget the Magnum, if I’m in that spot, Give me the BFG-9000.

As for the incidents of a perp being stopped because of stopping to reload, you only hear about the ones like that on purpose. The part they also don’t mention is, this is because usually their weapons jammed from using large capacity magazines, (The guy in Arizona’s Glock Pistol jammed from using a 33rd mag in it. That jam was what let them tackle him. In Colorado, Holmes AR jammed because he tried to use a 100rd Beta Drum Magazine in it.).

You also hear the term “mass shootings” since there is no one there to stop them from becoming them. There have been a few stopped in the attempt by armed guards, or armed civilians, but since the death tolls don’t cross X amount, they don’t receive national coverage, or for other reasons. It’s a agenda, make no mistake about it.

I actually heard about one of those stopped “mass shootings”, it happened a couple months ago some off duty female cop went to the movies as it started someone burst in, let off a couple of shots then took two or three to the chest due to the off duty cop carrying her backup in her purse. I always wonder why that never got more attention.

From what I understand, a rifle is more than capable of killing Bambi. As far as bears go, you deserve to be eaten if you’re in their territory. Unless you are going to be making use of most of the bear (and not just using its skin and/or head for decoration), I really want the bear to win. I’m quite serious. I’m fundamentally opposed to hunting purely for sport/trophies; it makes you a murderer.

Again I ask, what use is a Magnum to a law abiding citizen? I think Exia and Zeta nailed it. Most Magnum owners want them because they are big, powerful weapons, which make the owner feel big and powerful just like a SUV does for some drivers. I’m trying to be civil here, but gushing about how awesome Magums are for killing things is not the kind of response I’m looking for. Shooting to kill shouldn’t be the goal of a defender (be they the police or a private citizen); the goal should be to neutralize the threat, sometimes that means killing the perp, other times shooting the perp once will do the trick.

As far as the good guys with guns to stop the bad guys with guns argument, most of the time the good guys get taken out and provide more weapons and/or ammo for the bad guys. Sorry, but most private citizens aren’t as well trained as cops when it comes to using guns.

Proper mental heath facilities can only go so far in cutting down the number of psychopaths wielding weapons. The gun dealers are allowed to sell to practically anyone (including, of all people, persons on the terrorist watch list). The NRA is not your friend, gunowners; it’s the lobbyist group for the gun manufacturers.

I’ll leave you with one last, open question, gun owners, and think real hard before answering it: what regulations (if any) do you think are fair to impose on private gun owners? Please remember to take into consideration the public’s safety at large, in addition to the needs of hunters, self-defense, and whatever other reasons you have for wanting guns. You can take into consideration things such as permit requirements, gun dealership regulations, magazine sizes, legal gun types, and whatever else you consider important, but please give it some real thought (as in think about the consequences good and bad if your regulations/lack thereof became law).

Zeta I was providing history, not gushing. But since that isn’t what you wanted to hear, whatever. Your posts obviously point to where you are entrenched, and well I’ll leave this discussion here.

It doesn’t fit the media’s needs, there was a school shooting last week somewhere in Pennsylvania and was all over the news untill it turned out to be a drug related shooting that happened near the school, guess what it was completely missing from the news. Talk about a biased agenda

If you have never shot a magnum then you will never understand, its like me owning and driving my 1971 Oldsmobile 442 and I built the engine to make well over 300hp, there is no need for it other than I want to. I know lots of people that carry a .357 revolvers, its one of the most proven man stoppers. It has one of the best track records for ending a fight quickly, why because it is powerful, and when it doesn’t stop the enemy with a bullet, the flash and noise has been proven to scare enemies away also. Its a great self defense round, problem is your limited on ammo with usually 5-6 rounds for a revolver. Now the .357 SIG is the same bullet moving at the same speed that was designed to work in semi-autos

Zeta your unfortantly mis informed on some of your facts, first cops are not trained that well, trust me, I went to the police academy, the military isn’t even trained that well with pistols. I would rate most people that have pistols (cops and citizens alike) having the same shooting abilities. Most cops do not train at all and the only time they ever shoot is for their yearly test, and let me tell you that test is damn hard to fail. And no good guys don’t get taken out, most guns are stolen from homes because people don’t lock them on properly, before you get on that, safes are freaking expensive and generally expensive to install. There are tricks to that, like for me my stuff is hidden, the only way you will find my guns is if I showed you. Also I can’t just walk into anywhere to buy a gun, like the fabbled gun show. In my state you have to have at least a CCW permit or a firearm purchase permit which means you get finger printed and your backround gets checked. You can’t just go in and buy a gun.

To answer your question, I believe we need to start enforcing the law we already have and we need to stiffen the laws, I’m in court alot and I’ve seen firearm offenses brushed away unless someone was killed or seriously injured. Criminals know they won’t go to jail for illegeally carrying a firearm, they may get arrested, but they’ll be right back out again. Instead of focusing on drug offenses we need to focus on this.