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  1. #1
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    Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    I am getting really sick and tired of the double standards here.

    People B**** about Zeon all the time. Talking about how they commit genocide and what not.

    Yet these are the very people who cannot help but talk up Char. Who was the very person committing these acts of genocide.
    Such a double standard.

    I get that Zeon is "the Bad guy" And will always be seen as such no matter what. But DAM

  2. #2

    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeDelmo View Post
    I am getting really sick and tired of the double standards here.

    People B**** about Zeon all the time. Talking about how they commit genocide and what not.

    Yet these are the very people who cannot help but talk up Char. Who was the very person committing these acts of genocide.
    Such a double standard.

    I get that Zeon is "the Bad guy" And will always be seen as such no matter what. But DAM
    So, you irritated at people castigating Zeon but praising Char with his CCA mindset? Not sure if that's an equitable double standard. If you had Feddie/Titan fans putting Zeon down, then you'd have something.

    The conclusion in CCA, that was later expanded on in Unicorn and X, was that Char was wrong. Genocide is wrong no matter who does it or for what reasons. I'm a Char fan but I don't agree with everything that is/was done with his character. CCA and The Origin oav series being the biggest offenders, with me.

  3. #3
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Char was always the bad guy. Not just Zeon. But, I dont what what it was. The fact he was the main rival in Gundam that drew people to him. Or because he was the pilot of the red mobile suits. "And you know how everyone loves bright colors"

    He never had any loyalty to anyone. He killed for his own personal grudges. And again he was a pedo! They literally made a point to say as much. AND he always talks these kids into dying for him. When he clearly doesn't give two **** for them.

    He also has a weird mommy complex. Everyone talks about how he was in "love" with Lalah. But, he didnt just see Lalah as a love interest. He literally saw her as his Mother replacement! "Even Amuro was like WTF!"

    Yet, I digress.

    I just dont get it. Why people talk so much smack about Zeon yet hold Char up like his some saint. To me they are blaming Zeon for everything Char did.

    The core fact of Zeon was that the spacenoids wanted Independence. But the Zabi's took control.

    Sorry, again just venting and looking to see other view points. To both expand my own view and possible expands others.
    I get very into this stuff.

  4. #4
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Char's not a pedo. Lalah was 17 when Char was 19. Haman Karn had a one side crush, SHE liked Char but Char didn't view her in that way. And you seem to be forgetting he LEFT Zeon to join the AEUG because of what Haman did to the woman (read: adult woman!) he loved and was carrying his child.

    Only kid he "used" was Quess, and frankly who could blame him for not caring much about her and using her as a tool. The whiny bitch-o-meter was off the charts with that one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And the core of the Zeon matter was that they wanted their own independence. Which they got before the start of the war, then it escalated to all of space should be free. Which then started the war.

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  5. #5
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeDelmo View Post
    Char was always the bad guy. Not just Zeon. But, I dont what what it was. The fact he was the main rival in Gundam that drew people to him. Or because he was the pilot of the red mobile suits. "And you know how everyone loves bright colors"

    He never had any loyalty to anyone. He killed for his own personal grudges. And again he was a pedo! They literally made a point to say as much. AND he always talks these kids into dying for him. When he clearly doesn't give two **** for them.

    He also has a weird mommy complex. Everyone talks about how he was in "love" with Lalah. But, he didnt just see Lalah as a love interest. He literally saw her as his Mother replacement! "Even Amuro was like WTF!"

    Yet, I digress.

    I just dont get it. Why people talk so much smack about Zeon yet hold Char up like his some saint. To me they are blaming Zeon for everything Char did.

    The core fact of Zeon was that the spacenoids wanted Independence. But the Zabi's took control.

    Sorry, again just venting and looking to see other view points. To both expand my own view and possible expands others.
    I get very into this stuff.
    For the record, Char is not a pedophile. Lalah Sune was seventeen when she died while Char was twenty-two during the One Year War. Most likely, it was a one-sided infatuation on Lalah's part. Think of it as equivalent to a high school senior crushing on some older college guy. Think about it this way, Char saved Lalah from being exploited (in some older material it's even implied that Lalah was a prostitute), meaning she was willing to follow him if only because he saved her from unsavory people.

    I'm not even sure if I would call it that, but I do believe that Char's lack of a female influence may have had some sort an affect on him. He could be confused as he doesn't know what he wants (after all, he is an emerging Newtype). I think what he really wanted was a guide, a mentor, and he saw it Lalah (who just happened to be female).

    I honestly don't think that people who criticize Zeon are Char fans. Perhaps some (like myself) may respect the guy for his skill and cunning as a warrior, but that doesn't equate to liking the guy. He may come off as a suave and cool guy, but we (the audience) know that deep down he is a smug and charismatic @$$hole.

    Personally, I think you need to step back from Gundam for bit. I was once like you. I wanted to know more and get really into Gundam and wanted to show people how amazing this story is. But then I realized that the more I got into it, the more I isolated myself from reality. I stepped back from Gundam for bit and started watching other stuff besides Gundam (One Piece, Fate/ Stay Night, Initial D, Girls und Panzer). After all, Gundam is just a show. A groundbreaking show sure, but at the end of the day it's still just entertainment and no different from any other war drama (and I've seen quite a few myself). Like said, step back from Gundam for a bit. There is more to this world than just Gundam.
    Last edited by Zeta; February 7, 2018 at 12:25 AM.
    "You see, there's no need to wonder where your god is. Because he's right here! And he's fresh out of mercy!"
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    "Well, what good is being a god if you can't smite some people?"
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  6. #6
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    lol I wouldn't say I am that involved. I do enjoy the back and forth banter tho.

    I'v into it atm because I am playing Gundam Versus and am talking with new friends and old. And have been re watching allot of the Gundam series. Giving me allot deeper understanding of just what was happening.

    I highly suggest people re-watch with out nostalgic goggle clouding whats really there.

    The Pedo confirmation comes from a Conversation Guss Gyunei has with another Soldier. It was a brief scene. I'll try and find the time stamp. And I'll re-watch it in both English and Japanese. Basically Char is "with" Nanai Miguel simply for image only. As he has a certain reputation among the soldiers for being with many "young" girls.

    Which wasn't good for Chars image or moral.

    Just checked. I accidentally skipped the first one but they also bring it back up at 1hr 23 min -1hr 24 min

    I dont want to re-watch that trash ever again. So this might be the most I can do...
    The best part of CCA was Quess being killed...
    Last edited by LeDelmo; February 6, 2018 at 11:29 PM.

  7. #7

    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeDelmo View Post
    The Pedo confirmation comes from a Conversation Guss Gyunei has with another Soldier. It was a brief scene. I'll try and find the time stamp. And I'll re-watch it in both English and Japanese. Basically Char is "with" Nanai Miguel simply for image only. As he has a certain reputation among the soldiers for being with many "young" girls.

    Which wasn't good for Chars image or moral.

    Just checked. I accidentally skipped the first one but they also bring it back up at 1hr 23 min -1hr 24 min

    I dont want to re-watch that trash ever again. So this might be the most I can do...
    The best part of CCA was Quess being killed...
    The statement was made by Gyunei, who had a Newtype infatuation of Quess and was out to embarrass and humiliate Char by any means. Remember, he wanted to kill Amuro to acquire the Gundam and then prove he's stronger than Char. When Quess brings up Lalah on the bridge and the various crewman turn their heads to Char, it does seem to be an open secret about Char's relationship with Lalah. Gyunei knew about Char's nightmares/calling for Lalah in his sleep and about Lalah's connection with Amuro.

    We see from Zeta Gundam, that Char really isn't into women romantically at all. As he couldn't understand Reccoa's feelings for him or that she just wanted a compliment from him. There doesn't seem to be any other women for Char, except Lalah. While Char does say Nanai is very nice to him, and we see they do have an intimate relationship.

    Char just isn't available to women in that way. Amuro neither. Amuro never bothered to rekindle his relationship with Sayla, dropped Beltochika after Zeta and was hooking up with Chan but kept her at arms length during CCA. The stoic Japanese hero trope set to 11. Men have no time for women!

  8. #8
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amuro Aznable View Post
    The statement was made by Gyunei, who had a Newtype infatuation of Quess and was out to embarrass and humiliate Char by any means. Remember, he wanted to kill Amuro to acquire the Gundam and then prove he's stronger than Char. When Quess brings up Lalah on the bridge and the various crewman turn their heads to Char, it does seem to be an open secret about Char's relationship with Lalah. Gyunei knew about Char's nightmares/calling for Lalah in his sleep and about Lalah's connection with Amuro.

    We see from Zeta Gundam, that Char really isn't into women romantically at all. As he couldn't understand Reccoa's feelings for him or that she just wanted a compliment from him. There doesn't seem to be any other women for Char, except Lalah. While Char does say Nanai is very nice to him, and we see they do have an intimate relationship.

    Char just isn't available to women in that way. Amuro neither. Amuro never bothered to rekindle his relationship with Sayla, dropped Beltochika after Zeta and was hooking up with Chan but kept her at arms length during CCA. The stoic Japanese hero trope set to 11. Men have no time for women!
    http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Natalie_Bianchi

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  9. #9
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeDelmo View Post
    lol I wouldn't say I am that involved. I do enjoy the back and forth banter tho.

    I'v into it atm because I am playing Gundam Versus and am talking with new friends and old. And have been re watching allot of the Gundam series. Giving me allot deeper understanding of just what was happening.

    I highly suggest people re-watch with out nostalgic goggle clouding whats really there.

    The Pedo confirmation comes from a Conversation Guss Gyunei has with another Soldier. It was a brief scene. I'll try and find the time stamp. And I'll re-watch it in both English and Japanese. Basically Char is "with" Nanai Miguel simply for image only. As he has a certain reputation among the soldiers for being with many "young" girls.

    Which wasn't good for Chars image or moral.

    Just checked. I accidentally skipped the first one but they also bring it back up at 1hr 23 min -1hr 24 min

    I dont want to re-watch that trash ever again. So this might be the most I can do...
    The best part of CCA was Quess being killed...
    I highly suggest you take a step back like zeta suggested. It's abundantly clear that you do not understand what your talking about. Char was not a pedo and there is ZERO evidence to prove he was.

    The only thing I will give you is that despite the fact Char's main goal was revenge the acts he committed grew to become more and more evil as time progressed. Despite the fact he may of had some good intentions from the start. As for the Zabi's Gihren and Kycillia Zabi are far more evil than Char. The only members the Zabi's that I feel sorry for are Garma, Dozel, and Mineva. Those Three we're decent people.

  10. #10
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    I don't know. I think I bring up a valid point.

    I mean not once but twice they reference Char with with "Young" Girls. To the point of worrying soldiers. Not to mention throughout the Gundam UC series. Char is clearly distant towards other women. While being very friendly with younger Children. Not just Girls mind you. Amuro being one of the first.

    Heck they even go as far as to explain why he might prefer young girls. He using them as a temporary substitution for Lalah. Who we know is also a substitute mother for him.

    I am not claiming this theory will be widely accepted. But there are clear indicators here. And it will be almost impossible for others to accept such outrageous accusations.

    I really don't get this whole take a step back thing? I am just trying to have a conversation. And I enjoy the banter. If this topic is upsetting you personally maybe you should take a step back and remember this is all fictional.

    I may hate Char with a passion. But I do so because I enjoy hating on him. lol
    Plus, It's always fun to see Char fans squirm with frustration.

  11. #11
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rxslinger View Post
    I highly suggest you take a step back like zeta suggested. It's abundantly clear that you do not understand what your talking about. Char was not a pedo and there is ZERO evidence to prove he was.

    The only thing I will give you is that despite the fact Char's main goal was revenge the acts he committed grew to become more and more evil as time progressed. Despite the fact he may of had some good intentions from the start. As for the Zabi's Gihren and Kycillia Zabi are far more evil than Char. The only members the Zabi's that I feel sorry for are Garma, Dozel, and Mineva. Those Three we're decent people.
    Lady Kycyllia did nothing wrong!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LeDelmo View Post
    I don't know. I think I bring up a valid point.

    I mean not once but twice they reference Char with with "Young" Girls. To the point of worrying soldiers. Not to mention throughout the Gundam UC series. Char is clearly distant towards other women. While being very friendly with younger Children. Not just Girls mind you. Amuro being one of the first.

    Heck they even go as far as to explain why he might prefer young girls. He using them as a temporary substitution for Lalah. Who we know is also a substitute mother for him.

    I am not claiming this theory will be widely accepted. But there are clear indicators here. And it will be almost impossible for others to accept such outrageous accusations.

    I really don't get this whole take a step back thing? I am just trying to have a conversation. And I enjoy the banter. If this topic is upsetting you personally maybe you should take a step back and remember this is all fictional.

    I may hate Char with a passion. But I do so because I enjoy hating on him. lol
    Plus, It's always fun to see Char fans squirm with frustration.
    The whole take a step back thing is because you're pretty fixated on the whole pedo thing despite being told otherwise.

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  12. #12
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    dude you just need to take a step back in general lol. first you complained about certain kits and now you're obsessed with the idea of char being a pedophile. chill out.

  13. #13
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Oh, and to get back on topic.

    I cannot help myself but to see the spacenoids as victims count in the middle of two powers trying to gain control.

    And Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that Zeon was always being manipulated by power hunger individuals. I could easily see them as being the good guys fighting for their Independence. And Gundam clearly shows how Earthlings would regularly see spacenoids as lesser people.

    I wonder if Tomino wasn't just trying to make a point about the futility of war. But to also "possibly" portray his views on Japanese rule in WW2?

    Its a interesting thought atleast.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Again I honestly dont understand why people are getting so stressed out.

    My statements shouldn't be read as being so hostile.

    I not sure what kits you are referencing...?

  14. #14
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeDelmo View Post
    I wonder if Tomino wasn't just trying to make a point about the futility of war. But to also "possibly" portray his views on Japanese rule in WW2?
    Right here, you've nailed on the head. The Principality of Zeon (while sometimes compared to Nazi Germany) has a lot in common with Imperial Japan during the Second World War. If you've even read an inkling of history about Imperial Japan during the Second World War (and during the inter-war period in the 1920's and 1930's), you'll understand that this comparison is very accurate. For example, Zeon propaganda states that they liberating the Spacenoids from the tyranny of the Federation, yet at the same time Zeon is slaughtering the very same Spacenoid colonists they claim to be liberating. This is very similar to Imperial Japan's East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere where the Imperial military juntas were proclaiming that they were liberating the Pacific Islands and China from Western colonial rule (under the banner of Asia for Asians), while simultaneously participating in the wholesale slaughter of the Indonesians, Filipinos, Koreans, and Chinese (what they really meant was Asia for the Japanese). The whole One Year War is an analogy to the Pacific Campaign, with Mobile Suits and space carriers representing the rise of naval air power (Japan was one of the first nations to adopt naval aviation as a viable weapons platform, and six months after Pearl Harbor the US Navy caught on to this tactic and used it to great effect).
    "You see, there's no need to wonder where your god is. Because he's right here! And he's fresh out of mercy!"
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  15. #15
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    I can see why people disagree with you about who is worse Char or the Zabi's? People explained the difference between the two so you make up the counter argument "Char is a pedophile". You don't even provide any evidence to support your claims on top of it. Your making up false claims just to push your own personal view. If your willing to do this about a fictional character that you don't like it makes me wonder what you'll do IRL.

    The reason behind the "take a break" comments it the fact that majority of your post are you complain about something you don't like and when someone challenge your view you double down on what you think instead of listening to what others have to say.


 

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