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  1. #16
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    I am more than willing to listen. It IS entirely possible Char is NOT a pedo. But again, I feel like I made a valid response as to why it might be that he is. The fact is I can't validate all the "young" girls ID cards that were brought up. So who knows. But, I did provide evidence as to why I can think this way. Which is not even being acknowledged.

    YOU are the ones not dropping this one thing. That was never even sopost to be apart of the conversation. It was my mistake stating something that I personally picked up on and believe. And my punishment for this is to be berated for it? I started this conversation. Because I had a similar conversation with some friends while gaming in chat. It was a very fun conversation with two sides making there own valid points.

    So I thought I would post a similar conversation on here. I mean there hasn't really been much to talk about on here lately so why not?

    And in doing so, because I stated something that is clearly not widely accepted. Some of you took this as a opportunity to attack me personally. I took that "step back" comment as a direct attack. Which had nothing to do with the conversation nor anything other than to be directly targeted at me.

    Zeta thank you for the comment. And I am sorry this thing has gotten so off track. That was never my intention.

  2. #17
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Just to point something out off topic; if you find what someone is posting to be annoying or it really bothers you, there is always the Ignore list feature on the board. Simply click on their profile and add them to your ignore list.

    ...If i wasn't a mod, oh my god i would block soooo many people lol but i have to view posts.


    https://www.facebook.com/Squeesworkbench

    I am no longer a Moderator despite what the user title says. Please do NOT pm me with questions on how to do something hobby related or with issues with the board. Just ask in a related thread.

  3. #18
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Does Zeon get "put down"? Honestly, for someone who is literally the enemy in the majority of Gundam series, they get a lot of fanfare.

    And Char most definitely sucks-- bringing him back for Gundam Z and making him into a good guy (or the initial route of him just becoming a "good guy" on his own that never made it to air because Gundam was cut 7 episodes short.)

    The original Gundam was produced at a time when bad guys were just motivationless stock bad guys. The fact that the Zeon side was given any character is pretty amazing. The series is also majorly responsible for the introduction of the concepts of anti-heroes, bishounen and loli girls being part of the action hero team (the last being in Gundam ZZ).

    But it was because the idea of Gundam, as lost as it gets in the modern interpretation of naturally ultra superior teen boys in invincible all powerful mechs who are encouraged to just unilaterally impose their personal will on the world and utterly slaughter all who oppose their selfish ends, was that war well... sucked.

    As it has been expanded on... Zeon was one of many colonies that were set up, pilgrims on the edge of the frontier who faced many hardships... but could be rewarded with far more wealth than even existed on Earth. The thing is... Zeon felt it was being exploited. So they rebelled. And all they had to rebel with was some construction equipment. They tried to upgrade it to fight the Earth Armada, and eventually they managed to do it enough to take advantage of the fact that their little modified construction suits were so small and difficult to hit that they could get close to a massive warship and actually take one down!

    Still, pushed that they were absolutely going to lose this war of attrition as they couldn't keep up... they were going to lose. So they orchestrated a little fly-by-night operation that would hit the main base of operations of the Earth Federation with such power as to bring the militia to its knees and allow them and the rest of the colonies to be free... except... well... it was a fly-by-night operation. If those involved didn't know exactly the full extent of what they were doing. They totally miscalculated and killed tens, if not hundreds, of millions of completely innocent people not even counting the people they killed on the colony they used as a weapon in the attack.

    It was an evil act... it was also a desperate act... it also was an act that it is never clear just how far up the chain anyone really knew the details of exactly how this was going to go down. Generally, the people of Zeon were split between elation that they now actually had a fighting chance.... and horrified by what their own people had done. Those who were involved in the operation were painted as villains for their actions, yet at the same time... what was done was done... and they really had to take advantage of the opportunity created and invade the earth while they still could.

    Now, Char? Char is a pretty irredeemable asshole and I am not sure how anyone goes about defending him. He is led to believe that Zabi killed his father for power, though... frankly, given what we see of the Zabi family, I have to wonder if Char's father wasn't some unhinged madman who was going to endanger them all. He decides he is going to murder the entire Zabi family regardless of the actual content of character they have... seriously... who decides to punish potentially good people for the sins of their father?

    And he goes about this... by being really good at fighting against and killing the members of the Earth Federation... so the fact that they don't hate his guts and refuse to listen to him and demand his head on a platter in Gundam Z is just the stupidest thing ever.
    And who does he ultimately kill in his blood feud? Umm... Garma who had so little disdain for people of Earth that he was going to marry an aristocratic earth girl and probably work towards peace.... And Kacyllia who had just shot her own brother for murdering their father and stopping the peace talks from occurring... and probably would have then gone on to bring a peaceful end to the conflict had she escaped to Axis successfully.

    Basically, his assassinations only made the war worse and prolonged it. Everyone in Zeon should hate his guts and the fact that anyone ever followed him ever again in subsequent Gundam series is stupid.
    Oh... and despite the fact that he murdered Garma and Kacyllia, we are supposed to believe he was kind to Minerva... because even though everything about his character dictated he would have hunted down and slit the 4-year old girl's throat had he been given half the chance, despite never showing any second thoughts or regrets over his actions and determination to wipe out an entire bloodline for the death of his father that he had no proof about the details of... well... I guess it would be hard to redeem him if he followed through on the obvious path he was on.

    Really, it would have been best had Char's story ended in the original Gundam. He had the chance to walk away, he had the chance to become a better person, he had the chance to help end the conflict... and he actively chose to throw his life away on revenge against someone who was never anything but ridiculously kind and lenient with him.

    Then... when this asshole comes back, his outright stated goal is to ruin Earth and purge it of all life in order to force everyone to live on Space Colonies in order to feed his superiority complex.

    And it is so much worse that his story ends with him, after years of machinations and based on almost nothing at all, he dies stopping his own plan of hitting Earth with the biggest asteroid yet. Really-- it would have been so much more suitable had he been killed by a relative of any number of the people he had killed or used as pawns along the way in order to underline the fact that cruelty enacted in the name of vengeance only begets more of the same.

    Quite frankly, other than being stupid enough to continue to follow him, the motivations of just about everyone else in Zeon can be justified to some extent. Ultimately they just wanted to stop living under the oppression of Earth and be free... and they never really got that since they lost the war and were kind of being hunted down. So war just kept perpetuating war. And every single time a Zeon group popped up to try to assert dominance over the Earth Sphere with some new desperate terrorist act, it just created all that more justification for the Earth to crack down on them even more brutally and oppressively in order to stop any such thing from happening again.


    Of course, that really only applies to the original Gundam series. Once Gundam Z comes around, you have a protagonist who is an unhinged extremist psychopath whose motives can only be understood in regards to that's where the writer wanted the plot to go, it making sense for the character be damned... and this whole thing where literally every single female character is totally willing to just completely switch sides and slaughter all of her family and friends at the drop of a hat over the slightest possible hint of a reason to do so.... and the general stupidity involved with the handling of Char to begin with....

    But the idea that the Earth Federation made its own special black ops division to really crack down on other rebellious colonies? Totally understandable. This causing resentment and further rebellion? Again, totally understandable. The fact that the black ops division is totally done in when they decide to try to treat a few Spacers with some respect and either try to deal with them honestly or give them power as a member of their organization? Totally ironic how it kinds of goes to show they weren't exactly wrong to be biased and brutal in the first place as Haman and Sirocco proved that no Spacer could be trusted, while the argument still stands that maybe they wouldn't have been so vulnerable had they not been so cruel until that point.

    And, again, here we had the remnants of Zeon trying to fight for freedom and independence when they were basically being cut off from the rest of humanity and starved for having lost the war.


    So, really... I don't see where you can get the idea that Zeon was being terribly demonized. I feel generally they are presented in a far more sympathetic light than I would have expected them to be all considered.
    [RP]Mobile Suit Gundam: War-Torn Horizons - Nobuyori Takeda, pilot of Elmeda (Tokugawa Knight Custom)

  4. #19
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    Re: Why do people always complain about Zeon?

    Thanks Jester!

    That was a really good read!

    Yeah I wasn't so much making a point about how Zeon is portrayed in the Gundam Universe. As to how many fans seem to unfairly criticize them. "Complain"
    Allot of this comes from me having good conversations with friends.

    I am really glad you brought up the female characters aswell. I dont know what it is. But, The Gundam series is NOT kind to female characters.
    They are ether brutally killed or uncharacteristically switch sides for no reason and than get killed. lol

    Reccoa made no sense at all! The way I saw it see basically did all that so she could be with a man that would "treat" her like a woman?

    Heck, I think the ONLY female character I can think of that doesn't get offed or dragged though the mud is Sayla. Someone I know said something about her not being brought back in Z because something between the voice actor and the director? We joke that, that dispute saved Salya's life.


 

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