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Thread: Movies

  1. #946
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    Re: Movies

    The only way Kong has a chance of winning against Godzilla is if the writer/director pulls it out of their ass and basically cheats (wouldn’t be shocked to see it happen either, since American movie and Kong is an American creation while Godzilla is not). Godzilla is and always has been on size, endurance, physical strength, and all round power levels far beyond that of Kong. Kong may or may not be smarter than Godzilla, but it’s not by that much even if he is, since Godzilla is not and never has been a stupid creature. This is not a situation like Freddy vs Jason or Alien vs Predator where reasonable, logical arguments could be made in favor of either party without breaking/disregarding the established canonical depictions of the characters and their abilities. In the case of Godzilla vs Kong, one is a pretty much indestructible, cunning, nuclear powered dinosaur that spews a beam of pure radiation and the other is an overgrown gorilla for better or worse. If the debate was between Godzilla and Gamera, one could make some reasonable arguments for both sides, as those two are at least comparable (although I still think Godzilla would have the edge). But Godzilla vs Kong? Please. The only way Kong can possibly win is if the writer/director cheat and pull a deus ex machina or some other sloppy/poor writing trick that violates all established facts/rules about the characters to suit a particular agenda (e.g. rah rah America is the best or some stupid, misguided attempt to subvert audience expectations internal logic/consistency be damned). That said, I think it’s a near certainty that Godzilla will be fighting Kong only for part of the movie before the two eventually team up to fight Mecha King Ghidorah, Destroyah, Gigan, MechaGodzilla, Gamera, some new creature created by Legendary, or whatever other threat might be able to credibly challenge the combined might of Godzilla and Kong.
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  2. #947
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    Re: Movies

    It's going to be something cooked up by Tywin Lannister and his goons, I'm sure.
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  3. #948
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    Re: Movies

    I'm totally down with the idea of Tywin Lannister piloting/commanding a Mecha King Ghidorah or MechaGodzilla.
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  4. #949
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    Re: Movies

    Like they said "What's a King compared to a God?" Kong was taken out by a few blocks of C-4 and 5.56mm bullets,(basically a .22. So ya not a very big round.) and a touch of Napalm on the water. Not to mention the amount of flesh ripped up from the helicopters and what not. Basically everything that hurt Kong, Godzilla wouldn't even notice. Heck M1 tank rounds bounce off of Godzilla skin, that depleted uranium round would blow Kongs arm off.
    As much as a MechaGhidorah or even a MechaGodzilla would be great, I don't see that happening. They do not have the rights for any of the other monsters from ToHo. I did watch one reviewer who had an idea that kind of made sense. What if they use the DNA to try and make a new hybrid of King Ghidorah or use it to rebuild the Orca and try to control the other monsters and continue with their original plan. That would be cool, Godzilla and Kong would have to fight off a bunch of monsters.

    On a side note I know I'm in the minority here, but I will not call them kaiju. Why? Well ToHo has always called them "Monsters" the hole Kaiju thing is relatively new, not the word but the use of it here in the west. It fits better with Pacific rim and what not. But the Monsters from MONSTER ISLAND will always be monsters to me. But just IMO.


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  5. #950
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    Re: Movies

    I'm also sure the next film will reveal a lot more about Kong, his origin and abilities, and what he's been up to for the past few decades, that would all help even the odds.
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  6. #951
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    Re: Movies

    Quote Originally Posted by Plamobot View Post
    I'm also sure the next film will reveal a lot more about Kong, his origin and abilities, and what he's been up to for the past few decades, that would all help even the odds.
    I can sum that up real quick for you.
    He is taller, hairy, and can climb buildings better. Also is still a giant monkey..But has plot armor so that is a +20 to his defense..... and his a$$ better not even think about trying that stupid "Tree in Godzillas mouth" crap again. Gorillas can't swim so Godzilla just has to drag his a$$ out into the pacific and about 20 fathoms down and watch him try to breath under water. LOL


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  7. #952
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    Re: Movies

    @gundammonkey - You mentioned Kong being hurt from the Skull Island movie. It was said in that movie that Kong is still a baby. And that supposedly took place 30-40 years before the events of the 1st Legendary driven Godzilla movie. Which would give him time to grow and develop. So in my mind we will see a much different Kong in the next movie than we saw before.

    That being said, I totally agree with Zeta-G that Godzilla will be fighting Kong for a portion of the movie. Either from Kong not willing to submit to the new "King of Monsters", or by some evil plan. But they'll eventually team together to take down a much larger threat.
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  8. #953
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    Re: Movies

    @Gundammonkey: Kaiju/daikaiju has always been the proper Japanese term for giant monsters like Godzilla; most westerners just never bothered to use/learn the correct term until more recently.

    Also just because they haven't announced a license for any other Toho monsters publicly doesn't mean they don't have one (ditto for a third party license like Gamera or whatever). They may be saving the reveal of a big licensed kaiju as a surprise to unveil at this year's comic con, some other promotional event between now and release, a trailer, or even the movie itself. Remember these movies use CG for the kaiju, so it wouldn't be hard to hold back on the reveal until the last possible/most opportune moment, especially if the mystery threat is Mecha King Ghidorah, since they could easily just have the actors call him Ghidorah in the script/on screen and act against a placeholder image of regular Ghidorah.

    @plamobot and @thwalker13: Kong is still young/growing in Skull Island, so he has had roughly 40 years to grow since then, but he's still Kong/a giant gorilla and Godzilla is still Godzilla. Even in the old King Kong vs Godzilla, where Toho was forced to seriously buff Kong up in order to make it even remotely resemble a fair fight, Kong spent pretty much the entire movie getting his ass utterly handed to him, and that was with a huge boost in size plus newly added electrical powers plus Godzilla being suddenly nerfed to be weak to electricity (He plowed right through power lines in the first two movies with minimal effort and continued to do so after the crossover with Kong). Even when Kong tried to outsmart Godzilla, Godzilla was either able to anticipate his plan in advance or reacted fast enough to negate it. The only reasons Kong fans even delude themselves into ever thinking it was ever a fair fight or that Kong won is because a) the American version (done by the owner of Kong) spliced in footage of a newsman who only existed to talk smack about Godzilla and promote Kong, and b) because the fight ended with both of them taking their fight underwater (Godzilla's home turf), followed by King Kong emerging and swimming away from Japan as fast as possible, while Godzilla chilled in his under water home off screen. Keep in mind Toho had the rights to make more films with Kong, so they could have had him crossover with Godzilla again (or some other monster in their shared Showa-era kaiju movie verse like Mothra or Rodan) but they didn't. Instead, they decided to replace Kong with Godzilla in Ebirah, Horror of the deep (aka Godzilla vs the Sea Monster), and the one other Kong movie they made, King Kong Escapes, was a reboot based on a cartoon. Why? Because Toho got what they wanted out of the deal: access to the more well known King Kong character, which they only ever wanted in order to promote their own lesser known creation (Godzilla) internationally. They knew they had to give the far more well known monkey a fighting chance (illogical as it was) or risk the owners of Kong getting displeased and taking Toho's key to boosting Godzilla's international fame and dethroning Kong as the most well known movie monster with them. But make no mistake, Kong got his ass handed to him in that movie and swam away as fast as he could at the end. There's a reason Godzilla replaced King Kong as the most most well known and iconic giant monster in the public consciousness after that film: Godzilla kicked the great King Kong's ass repeatedly in front of the whole world and made it look easy, because, for Godzilla, it was (even with a huge boost to Kong's abilities). Godzilla has been the undisputed King of Monsters ever since.

    Incidentally, knowing how they used King Kong to boost Godzilla's international profile/popularity to the point of replacing King Kong as the face of the genre, is probably why Toho has never consented to a Godzilla vs Gamera movie, and why Gamera's owners, Daiei (always teetering on bankruptcy) and its eventual successor Kadowawa Pictures, have wanted one for decades. Why Toho didn't just buy Gamera outright when Daiei went under, since they were licensing him for the Heisei Gamera Trilogy, is anyone's guess (I'd assume anti-trust reasons, since Gamera is Godzilla's/Toho's most well-known Japanese competition, but I honestly don't know. Shame it didn't happen though, since the Heisei Gamera trilogy are the best Gamera movies by far and some of the best Kaiju movies ever made, period. He'd really have paired up quite nicely with Mothra as a deity/protector monster tag team, especially since Godzilla has generally returned to being an antihero/villain post-Showa era).
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  9. #954
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    Re: Movies

    I wasn't trying to say that I think Kong will be a fair fight against Godzilla. I don't see how he could, unless he uses foreign objects as weapons. But even then, I don't see it working out well for Kong.
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  10. #955
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    Re: Movies

    Zeta-G there was a fan made Godszilla -V- Gamera. Youtube channel with "Death Fight" did it. they went into great detail as to what would happen both of their pros and cons as to the fight. but all in all Godzilla won. Gamera has the MO of getting his butt kicked at first and learning his opponent then coming back to finish the fight at a later date after healing. Godzilla would not let him "get away" once Gamera was down in the first fight Godzilla his MO is to finish the fight right then and there, so he would atomic breath him and stomp him to death at the first sign of weakness.

    @thwalker13 yes he will be bigger after 40 + years of growing. But in that growth spurt he did not grow armor, or thicker skin. He is still just a big Gorilla. I'm quite positive that he will use weapons when they fight, he has already set president for that when he fought the skull crawler. The chain and prop, which I will admit was rather cool as hell to see him use. But he will and still can get cut up and bleed. But he better find something sharp as hell if he wants to cut Godzilla, like stated earlier almost every thing the military has in their inventory would just bounce off Godzilla or at the best just piss him off.

    Lets face it Godzilla survived a sub orbital drop to earth along with reentry burn and got up and walked away from it. Yes it dazed him a bit, but it did not kill him or permanently hurt him. And we all saw what happens when you set off a nuke right in front of him. Hell we set off a nuke about 5 feet from his face!! All it did was power him up and piss him off.
    What do you have now Kong?.....O' wait I forgot Kong has the one weapon that can't be beat. Plot armor.


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  11. #956
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    Re: Movies

    I can see it now: Kong throws trees and helicopters at Godzilla, and when that doesn't work he grabs a ship to use as a sword, Pacific Rim style, and Godzilla just looks at him completely unfazed, like, "Really, that's all you've got, bro?" Then he lights Kong up with with his radioactive heat wave and makes him miss the days of Samuel L Jackson's napalm.

    Just had a random idea regarding what could potentially go down in Godzilla vs Kong: what if instead of Mecha King Ghidorah or something like that as the mutual enemy at the end, it goes in the direction of Godzilla and Kong fight for the first part as expected, but at some point, Godzilla gets really pissed off and mean (possibly due to an outside influence like alien control) and then precedes to rip Kong's arms off like they were Ghidorah's heads, and then just starts rampaging (basically has a heel turn), resulting in the humans partially turning Kong into Mechani-Kong in an attempt to protect themselves from Godzilla's wrath? A partially mechanized Kong might be the one scenario where they could give Kong a fighting chance and not immediately break all internal logic regarding the creatures' abilities. Godzilla vs Kong is a pretty lopsided fight, but Godzilla vs (partial) Mechani-Kong might be a bit more fair, given that MechaGodzilla has always been one of Godzilla's strongest foes (if not the strongest period). I don't know if this scenario is super likely given Legendary leaning kind of hard on the heroic image of Godzilla from the later Showa films, but let's not forget that in the earlier Showa films and pretty much everything post-Showa (in other words the majority of Godzilla films), Godzilla has been an antihero at best. Basically the easiest, most direct way to justify the whole two good guys fight thing is to make one of them the villain (or morally grey at least), possibly due to the influence/actions of a third party villain manipulating one/both of the heroes, and Godzilla as a character has always thrived with a darker depiction. Just food for thought/idle speculation about a possible alternative to the they fight, until third monster shows up scenario. That said, Legendary probably will just go with the Godzilla vs Kong, then Godzilla & Kong vs 3rd party angle we're all expecting the movie to take.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @gundammonkey: I'm aware of the fan "film". Death battle 1) isn't official and 2) while they can be fun, they will also will trip over themselves/cherry pick info sometimes to justify whatever ending they want/think will get the most clicks. Also while I don't disagree about Gamera's MO, Mothra has it too*, and she has one of the better track records against Godzilla (not that that's saying much; he's King of the Monsters for a reason). Plus Gamera has something Mothra, Kong, and a bunch of others don't have: a shell to hide in/protect himself in as he flies/runs away to fight another day. That said, I do think Godzilla would probably win in the end against Gamera. I just brought Gamera up as an example of a battle of Kaiju genre icons where Godzilla could have legitimate competition that has better odds of surviving/winning against Godzilla than a snowball's chances in hell without plot armor, unlike Kong. *To be fair, in Mothra's case, it's more like die and get reincarnated, but whatever, it's still the same basic pattern of lose and come back stronger.
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  12. #957
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    Re: Movies

    True about "Death Battle" but I did say Fan made, so that in itself means not official or cannon. They do cherry pick for what they want to happen, but that is part of the fun. I never took them seriously, more of a popcorn film type thing.

    I don't see a Mecha anything, they don't seam to have the tech at this point to make a Mecha Kong let alone a Ghidorah. I'm sticking with the fight - team up to fight a 3rd party thing. But don't forget the "Egg" that they found in the end credits, so we could see Mothra coming back in one way or another. Maybe the DNA from the Ghidorah head is put into the egg and we get a legendary version of Batra? A forcibly mutated mothra would be cool.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Edit: Another thing about the Mecha angle is time. Look at the time it took G-Force to make the MechaGodzilla. They stated in the movies it took a few years to make the first one and they used the bones and DNA for the first Godzilla to make it. But even if they stuck with the time line like they did for KOM and made it like it was happening right now, only 2 years would pass. So counting R&D time and what not it is just not enough time to make a MechaGhidorah. And to make arms or parts for Kong they would have to know in advance that they would need them in order to make them in time to stop an rampaging Godzilla.

    I just feel and think it will be a third Monster that makes Kong sit down and shutup and listen to the real King and fight together.


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  13. #958
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    Re: Movies

    It took them a bit of time to develop the Millennium series MechaGodzilla, which was built on the bones of the original Godzilla, as you said. Heisei series MechaGodzilla on the other hand was built in a significantly shorter period of time (albeit that one was built based on analyzing and reverse engineering the Futurian tech in Mecha King Ghidorah's corpse). Not saying Mecha anything is most likely by the way, since the tech may not be advanced enough yet in the Legendary MonsterVerse (although there are some pieces of tech that are significantly more advanced than real world modern tech in King of the Monsters, so it's not completely out of the question). That's not even getting into the possibility of alien invaders building the MechaGodzilla or Gigan or whatever, and remember they explicitly said Ghidorah was an alien in King of the Monsters, so that scenario is most definitely a possible direction they could go.

    Honestly, I'm mostly bringing up the Mecha/cyborg monsters as the possible third monsters because, Destroyah aside, the most dangerous Toho monsters left are mostly mechanical in some form or another (obviously this ignores a third party possibility like Gamera or Legendary creating a new original Kaiju that doesn't suck/isn't generic Hollywood monster); plus they've already used four out of the five most popular Toho Monsters (Godzilla, Rodan, Mothra, and King Ghidorah), which leaves MechaGodzilla as the lone holdout. I suppose out of the remaining Toho monsters, SpaceGodzilla and Biollante could also count as credible threats for the combined might of Godzilla and Kong, but SpaceGodzilla seems extremely unlikely for all sorts of reasons; an Erica-less version of Biollante could work though, especially if the setting is on Skull Island (which all signs point to). I do like the idea of the second Mothra egg being turned into an evil Mothra/Battra through. While the Toho Battra couldn't take Godzilla in a one on one fight, Mothra is most definitely one of the stronger kaiju, so having a "Battra" that is basically just an evil, powered up second Mothra could work. I think they'll want something that can grapple with Godzilla and Kong though. Maybe Battra could work as a partner for the big bad though, sort of like how Mothra functioned for Godzilla in King of the Monsters.

    Truth be told, Destroyah is who I really want to see as the big bad, especially if Godzilla vs Kong ends up being the last MonsterVerse film (King of the Monsters is doing okay, but unfortunately its sales so far are below expectations/projections). The amount of references to his movie in King of the Monsters were just too cool; I really hope it amounts to more than just fanservice. Destroyah would look absolutely amazing in the hands of the studio that gave us the first Pacific Rim.

    One final note, now it's time to crush everyone's hopes and dreams: the leader of the writer's room for Godzilla vs Kong worked on the script for the horrendous '98 Tristar version of "Godzilla". To be fair to him, Emmerich and Devlin tossed out most of his work on the story/screenplay when they came on board, including an "original" rival monster for Godzilla to fight, so his involvement was minimized, but the point still stands: Godzilla vs Kong is in the hands of one of the people who worked on the story for Godzilla 1998. On a more positive note, the writers of King of the Monsters (which includes the director of KotM) are supposedly giving the GvK script its final polish to ensure that the kaiju's characterization is consistent with their film.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Forgot about Hedorah earlier for some reason, but he would also qualify as a classic Toho kaiju who might be able to give Godzilla a run for his money, even when teamed up with Kong. Assuming his comparative power level is closer to the Showa version, rather than the underwhelming Millennium series version. The fact that the director of Godzilla vs Hedorah/the Smog Monster, Yoshimitsu Banno was a producer on the Legendary series until his death might actually increase Hedorah's chances, especially since the MonsterVerse start as a result of Banno getting the rights from Toho to make a sequel to the original Godzilla vs Hedorah for IMAX, and Banno essentially partnered up with Legendary after he failed to raise the necessary investment funding needed to make this planned IMAX sequel to Godzilla vs Hedorah. So actually outside of the perhaps doing something more with Ghidorah (given the post credit scene in KotM), Hedorah is actually probably the most likely third monster, especially since the license to use him was secured by Banno before Godzilla 2014 was ever released and thus Legendary could possibly sneak him into GvK as a surprise without having to announce/disclose any licensing deal with Toho (assuming the license/option granted to Banno didn't lapse sometime in the decade or so since it was struck); with Banno having passed during the planning/production of KotM and GvK, it might make for a nice tribute to him of sorts to include his creation. Plus Hedorah would definitely play into the MonsterVerse's environmental themes as a reaction of mother earth to the ecological disease of humanity and its pollution. Just some more idle speculation/food for thought.
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    Found this from KOTM site.
    This news paper clipping from the end credits of KOTM specifically says that a “Mechanical Titan” is under development by Monarch as well as the creation of other biological titan have been attempted by Monarch.
    Hummmmmm a Mecha-???




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    Re: Movies

    MechaGodzilla, Mechani-Kong, and MOGUERA would be Toho's pure mechanical kaiju from Godzilla/Kong, while Gigan and Mecha-King Ghidorah would be their partially mechanical kaiju (cyborgs). As for purely biological, there's still many possibilities left (although let's be real, Kamacaras isn't very likely, unless it's just as cannon fodder).

    MechaGodzilla, being the sole holdout of the Godzilla franchise's big 5, would probably make the most sense/be the most likely of the mechanical titans (although being on Skull Island, might point towards modeling it after Kong, which would mean Mechani-Kong), but the bit about attempting to create a biological titan could point towards Biollante (already have the idea of Godzilla crossed with a human to make a new alpha roar, add a plant to that mix and voila, the three components of Biollante are there); finally if the article is meant to point towards a hybrid creature (perhaps started off purely biological and then was partially mechanized to fix/compensate for some sort of failure/weakness of the creature), Gigan would fit the bill (especially since as far as we know, Monarch doesn't have access to Ghidorah following KotM).

    Fun/exciting to think about regardless of what it turns out to be (assuming it's a Toho creature and not a lame generic Hollywood monster). Hopefully, the recent rumors of WB/Legendary getting cold feet and considering reshoots in the wake of KotM underperforming against stiff competition are just rumors and nothing more. It'd be a real shame if the poor/unfortunate timing of KoTM's release gave the idiot suits the excuse they need to deviate from the awesomeness of KotM to make another Godzilla 1998. It's not the same Emmerich, but the fact that WB is now run by an Emmerich and one of the writers of Godzilla 1998 led the writers room for Godzilla vs Kong is leaving me feeling more than a little anxious about the whole thing.
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