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alphachruch
October 16, 2012, 8:52 PM
Ok let me start off with saying this thread isn't for violent debates but for more of a general discussion between friends:D. So let's try to stay peaceful. Let me start our talk with Gundam 00 since that was the first gundam I saw. I hate 00 QAN[T]. The name is so weird and the design is stupid to me. Why would you go from the amazing 00 raiser and it's twin-drive on it's shoulders and the amazing design it had to a more simple standard looking gundam with a large ass shield? and one of the gn drives is in the shield so if you lose that then you will be weakened. Who agrees? Exia to 00 Raiser was a step up like everyone expects. But 00 Raiser to QAN[T] is a step down. Except for quantization that could have been put in a better suit the QAN[T] sucks. why couldn't they make a suit like, idk, AGE-2 or Zeta? that would have been more respectable. and the other gundams in that time were big and fat and were meant for space battle. What about QAN[T]?:?:

Deathscythe!
October 17, 2012, 10:18 AM
Ok let me start off with saying this thread isn't for violent debates but for more of a general discussion between friends:D. So let's try to stay peaceful. Let me start our talk with Gundam 00 since that was the first gundam I saw. I hate 00 QAN[T]. The name is so weird and the design is stupid to me. Why would you go from the amazing 00 raiser and it's twin-drive on it's shoulders and the amazing design it had to a more simple standard looking gundam with a large ass shield? and one of the gn drives is in the shield so if you lose that then you will be weakened. Who agrees? Exia to 00 Raiser was a step up like everyone expects. But 00 Raiser to QAN[T] is a step down. Except for quantization that could have been put in a better suit the QAN[T] sucks. why couldn't they make a suit like, idk, AGE-2 or Zeta? that would have been more respectable. and the other gundams in that time were big and fat and were meant for space battle. What about QAN[T]?:?:

I recall QanT being an useless mobile suit. According to my memory, it simply entered this weird area, intending to annihilate something.

Allow me to compare, will you ?

The design : One of the most significant points. Considering Bandai tending to sell Gunpla, it is righteous to iniate with the designs.

00 Raiser : http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/00/gn-0000%2Bgnr-010.jpg

and

Qan[T] : http://mahq.net/mecha/gundam/00-movie/gnt-0000.jpg

I'm not a real of fan of neither of the displayed, nor am I a fan of the 00 designs themselves, Gundam throne II excluded.

Protagonist#s Gundams always possess a decent apparel, as do both of the exhibited, yet I am not fond of the desings at all.

Therefore, I strictly evaluate, by regarding impressions.
00 Raiser has obtained 1 point.

Aspect 2 : Relation between Gundam and Pilot.

00 Raiser assisted Setsuna assume a state of an innovator.
00 Raiser caused Setsuna unconciousness.
00 Raiser is a pimp.

Qan[T] has flowerz. Want some ?
Qan[T] requires Mr.Bushido sacrificing his life.
Qan[T] is equipeed with solar generators to be produced in intervals of 2 years.

00 Raiser again.


Strength : Qan[T]

Now it is 2:1.

Honestly speaking, I didn't take 00 Qan[T] seriously enough while I was watching that movie.
Nor did I take Setsuna seriously in the movie back then.

squeam
October 17, 2012, 12:25 PM
I personally like the design of the Q (don't want to type all those brackets and junk). I'm a fan of asymmetrical design and also like the muscular design of the body. The name IS a joke. Why not just "Quanta"? However, I agree that it does not fit in the lineage where it is at. I could see Q as a bridge between Exia and 00, but not the successor to 00. All the other pilots get significant, real upgrades that are overtly more powerful than Cherudim, Arios, and Seravee. Not to mention they all actually LOOK like progressions on their predecessors. Q seems out of place.

Jae102
October 17, 2012, 12:56 PM
Yeah 00 Qan [T] did seem less power than the 00 Raiser but the main point of the movie was to gain an understanding and bring peace between the ELS and Earth. Not destroy them that's why the 00 Qan [T] was made instead of the 00 Qan [T] Full Saber.

alphachruch
October 17, 2012, 7:04 PM
True that. I like that we understand my point of Q. But I guess it is stronger than 00. I just wish setsuna made peace with a stylish suit. Deathscythe, throne 2? Nah man that was sucky. It was too OP and was evil. And if my friend was here he would dislike you unsubscribe and then slap you silly about the fake GN drives. That is my friend not me. I hated the thrones and believed that they supposed to be killed. They didn't even look good since there where all these weird curves. The only Gundam that has curves and look good would turn a.

alphachruch
October 17, 2012, 10:29 PM
would this have a chance against Turn A, plz say yes. 3680
And another thing for the 00 Q. The direct timeline goes: 0 Gundam > GNY-001 Astraea & Type F & Type F2 > GN-001 Exia & Repair I & Repair II & Repair III & Avalanche Exia > GN-XXX Raisel + GNR-000 Sefer > GN-00 00 Gundam (& Seven Sword & Seven Sword/G ) + GNR-010 Raiser (& XN-00 XN-Raiser) > GNT-0000 00 QAN[T] > QAN[T] Full Saber 3681
The only ones i like are (a lot) : 0 ACD ver, all the astraeas, all the exias except Avalanche, all the 00s, Raisel Sefer, XN 00 Raiser, QAN[T] Full Saber (since it looks like 00 Raiser), GNY-002F Sadalsuud Type F, (my fav) GN-002 Gundam Dynames, GN-006GNHW/R Cherudim Gundam GNHW/R, GN-002REI Gundam Dynames Repair I, both Zabanyas, both Abulhools, both Kyrios, GN-007 Arios Gundam (+ GN-Archer), both Harutes, GNY-004 Plutone, GNY-0042-874 Gundam Artemie, GN-004/GN-005 Nadleeh/Virtue, GN-004/te-A02 Gundam Nadleeh Akwos, GN-008/GN-009 Seravee/Seraphim, GN-00902 SEM, GM-008RE Seravee Gundam II, GN-00802 Sera, CB-002 Rapheal Gundam, CB-002/GD Raphael Gundam Dominions, GNT-0000 ELS 00 QAN[T].
Which ones do you like from Celestial Being.

extend
October 17, 2012, 10:41 PM
I was disappointed with 00Q. My friend from my previous work was right. Let me quote the exact word he said. I remember him saying that 00 looks more "matipuno" than 00Q.

Matipuno = Macho

alphachruch
October 17, 2012, 10:55 PM
I completely agree. Shall i curve the topic to the side a bit? Unicorn vs 00.

Jae102
October 17, 2012, 11:58 PM
No just start a new thread.

alphachruch
October 18, 2012, 7:15 PM
lolz, ok fine we shall continue this then, since i feel lazy. The ELS ver of QAN[T] actually looks good though now why is that? maybe because of the things on its back that I forgot the name of. I also gained a bit more respect after the thread, respect for the QAN[T].

extend
October 18, 2012, 9:48 PM
It's a shame that we don't know what ELS 00Q can do. Considering what an ELS can do, it would be safe to assume it can have the same properties.

Dlinker
October 19, 2012, 1:39 AM
As good as it looks, I can't really enjoy it as much as I do the normal 00Q since it only shows up at the very end and even then, it's not in motion. What I hope it could do is to be able to change its form to whatever is needed to get a job done since ELS were able to shape-shift depending on the threat.

Jae102
October 19, 2012, 11:36 AM
Also if you pay attention to the main point of Gundam. they've always been trying to stop a war before it started or end it peacefully. Just look at Zeon it just keeps coming back and watch the end of the movie where Shenberg says people must change or else they'll be taking their problems into space. A reference to the UC era man. The 00 Qan [T] Most likey didn't even show it real battle capabilities because it wanted to do the Quantum System and Qan [T] design is pretty good. Also the 00 Qan [T] Full Saber is much stronger than the 00 Qan [T] it's capable of destroy the entire ELS invasion.

alphachruch
October 19, 2012, 7:33 PM
So are u saying there is still a problem in 00 after the movie which is why QAN[T] ELS was made? I thought it was because gundams were a cool way of traveling around. Like supercars. Since they only hold 2 people and are meant for recreational purposes.

Jae102
October 19, 2012, 7:41 PM
So are u saying there is still a problem in 00 after the movie which is why QAN[T] ELS was made? I thought it was because gundams were a cool way of traveling around. Like supercars. Since they only hold 2 people and are meant for recreational purposes.

No Aeolia Schenbergs epilogue. look for Gundam 00 Movie: Epilogue on youtube an you'll see it. Basically he was whole goal of turning people into innovators so people can be able to understand each other. When people are able to understand each other then they can change because if they don't then people will take their problems into space like the UC era. Aeolia whole goal was similar to Char's goal of forcing people to become newtypes so people would understand each other and stop fighting.

alphachruch
October 19, 2012, 9:12 PM
Oh i see. But why would you need gundams to do that?

Jae102
October 19, 2012, 9:19 PM
Oh i see. But why would you need gundams to do that?

Because if Gundam are made to destroy then they pretty much don't end war unless you're Turn-A Gundam and when you do end war on Turn-A scale then you're fucked. Setsuna 00 Gundam's can bring an state of understanding so people can achieve true peace together and Hopefully they can understand where they're coming from and create a new world.

alphachruch
October 19, 2012, 11:39 PM
Turn x and turn a are so unfair.

alphachruch
November 19, 2012, 5:54 PM
Ok since the thread is dead in attempt to revive it i shall open a new topic. Is gundam seed really that bad? I mean they made two seasons and an ova. And so many manga. And the gunpla is all over the place. My friend says it sucks. I know it isnt as great as AGe or 00 but it still has a good gundam feel to it. Also is AGE better for teens or adults?

Shiro45
November 19, 2012, 9:36 PM
I can't speak to Seed as I've only seen a few episodes and wasn't impressed...

As far as AGE goes, I would say it's appropriate for *young* teens. I know a couple of adults who like it, but more as a way of sharing Gundam with a "new generation", meaning their younger kids. The show itself from what I've seen is somewhat maddening; it's definitely *aimed* at a much younger audience according to the producers themselves... From other reviews I've read and heard of later episodes it seems that any sense of logic or reality is thrown out the window... But ultimately- to each his own! :-)

Kenico
November 20, 2012, 12:02 AM
On the AGE deal, i was pretty impressed with MS Designs, and the way the Gundam and certain Characters were dealt with to a degree. Story wise, some of it was a really big disapointment, dont get me wrong it was a good story on paper, but in practice i think the story, particularly the third arc was a cluster flop. Flit and Asemu were two of my favorite GMP*s, Kio...well...look at the ** at the bottom...Woolf Enacle is by far one of the most badass supporting character/mentors i have seen so far...Gundams AGE 1-AGE FX have to be some of the best Gundam Designs i have seen thus far, the FX and the Double Bullet are two of my faves at the top of my list.

*Gundam Main Protagonist

**All in all, if you want my full opinion on AGE, consult Anime overviewer and his ongoing reveiw on the series...I kinda agree on with him on several points, not all of them but most.

alphachruch
November 20, 2012, 10:38 PM
Yo i love Woolf. Not homosexually. I agree AGE was more for children since there some parts well i just yelled "you are so stupid GMP!" But its ok. I do like Asemu the best and Flit was good. But Kio and his arc ruined it all. The FX arc was also bad. Im on episode 11 of SEED. But can u answer the question? Was SEED bad?

Kenico
November 20, 2012, 11:58 PM
Seed was great...not awesome, but great. It had some quirks but not as bad as its successor, SEED Destiny.

alphachruch
November 21, 2012, 6:53 PM
Oh i see. Seed destiny was the one everyone hated. Now i get it. Was it as good as other gundams?

Kenico
November 21, 2012, 11:29 PM
Mechanical Wise, it had some really good gundam designs. Story wise it was ok to a point, certain characters (like my favorite Mu La Flaga), all in all it was a moderate success but its successor was a collossal Flop up.

alphachruch
November 24, 2012, 2:02 PM
Ya i like myu la flaga too. Why was seed destiny bad.

Deathscythe!
November 24, 2012, 2:09 PM
Seed's ending is astonishingly bad. (Ending = episodes 49/50)

The music's decently diverting !

Kenico
November 24, 2012, 8:21 PM
Ya i like myu la flaga too. Why was seed destiny bad.

Lets see:

Poorly created New Characters

Forementioned new characters are thrown onto the back burner when the orginal gang swoops back on the scene

Yamato (Nuff said)

Recycled Animation (this is one of the big stakes in its heart)

Athruns arc is a repeat from SEED

Shinn was the main character till Jesus Yamato (Kira Yamato) jumps back into the picture

The story was ok in the beginning but after the episode titled "nightmare" or Ep 39 chronologically then it starts to go downhill quick

ETC.



For further information, consult various threads on this forum or five of the following Youtube members:

Wackymodder84 (word to the wise: hes a bit passionate about his work so dont take whatever he says personally)

The AnimeOverviewer

Various other "Experts" on this Forum

Gundam Wiki

Mech and Anime HQ

Exia
November 24, 2012, 10:22 PM
Everyone bitches and complains to friggin' much, it's a show. For entertainment. Quit basing an opinion off of what some random nobody says about it. Waste a couple hours, watch the first ten episodes, then come up with an opinion. I watched Destiny before I saw SEED, so I have a very different view on both. I liked it, it was an enjoyable show, both SEED shows.

alphachruch
November 27, 2012, 12:14 AM
Ok, chill bro. I just wanna know why people think it was bad. No need to get upset over an anime.

Exia
November 27, 2012, 12:36 AM
Ok, chill bro. I just wanna know why people think it was bad. No need to get upset over an anime.

Everyone asks that. Because there are so many people who will either claim "SEED is the greatest gundam series ever" or "SEED is the worst gundam series ever" and then base an opinion off that without ever watching SEED. I'm so sick and tired of seeing that question "what is bad about SEED", just go watch it yourself and figure it out yourself.

Dlinker
November 27, 2012, 2:08 AM
I saw the first SEED movie (the one that didn't use the remastered stuff) and I didn't like it. I know, it only covered the series up to a certain point, but I still didn't like it. The animation bothered me so it was tough to immerse myself in it. I watched the remastered stuff from the first episode to the 40th (so far) and I'm enjoying it very much. Funny how visual quality can make a huge difference. I do pay attention to the story, the characters, and the background stuff. I really don't see the dislike for it. I've read the opinions of others on it and I've watched a few video reviews on it, which more often than not end up bashing it.

I still don't get why it's disliked so much.

I'm excited to see how SEED Destiny will turn out. The remastered one will be the first time I'm watching it and with the all vitriol everyone seems to throw at it, I'm curious to see how much of that applies to me. At the very least, it will be entertaining and that's all I ask for in a show with robots and explosions. That and I get to see my toys and model kits come to life, so to speak. I don't know why, but that always entertains me to no end.

Exia
November 27, 2012, 2:14 AM
I saw the first SEED movie (the one that didn't use the remastered stuff) and I didn't like it. I know, it only covered the series up to a certain point, but I still didn't like it. The animation bothered me so it was tough to immerse myself in it. I watched the remastered stuff from the first episode to the 40th (so far) and I'm enjoying it very much. Funny how visual quality can make a huge difference. I do pay attention to the story, the characters, and the background stuff. I really don't see the dislike for it. I've read the opinions of others on it and I've watched a few video reviews on it, which more often than not end up bashing it.

I still don't get why it's disliked so much.

I'm excited to see how SEED Destiny will turn out. The remastered one will be the first time I'm watching it and with the all vitriol everyone seems to throw at it, I'm curious to see how much of that applies to me. At the very least, it will be entertaining and that's all I ask for in a show with robots and explosions. That and I get to see my toys and model kits come to life, so to speak. I don't know why, but that always entertains me to no end.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

alphachruch
November 27, 2012, 10:49 PM
ya truly. The guy(s) who drew the seed characters was kinda bad. Well they were good, but the designs weren't good for a gundam at all. The look...dull. and Exia, I am watching SEED right now. Im not episode 14 since I haven't been able to watch a lot. But in my opinion Gundam 00 is the best. Since that was my first gundam, the characters don't look weird, and the Gundam designs are the most slick and cool. The only gundam design able to be different from the original gundam design (which is solid and have less curves) is Gundam AGE. but Gundam AGE has simple and uncomplex designs, which is still cool.

Dlinker
November 28, 2012, 1:16 AM
Overall, I also prefer Gundam 00 (both seasons), if only because it's something I can pick up and watch at a whim and still enjoy it. With SEED, I have a harder time enjoying the episodes as they are due to how slow they can be. For me, SEED is best enjoyed when watched in a series rather than an episode here and there and possibly skipping over one or two. Design-wise, I like the remastered SEED just as much as Gundam 00 and both have their own quirks that have grown on me. In terms of the 00 movie, which many seem to consider as not that good and tend to separate it from the rest of the series as much as possible, I enjoyed it a good deal. It reminded me of Gurren Lagann, which was a great watch for me. I see the movie as this: Gurren Lagann + Gundam 00 universe + a heavy dose of beam spam = Well-spent and very entertaining and action-packed two hours.

Strangely, the first Gundam series I watched was Gundam Wing and.....I didn't like it. I found it strange when I first watched it all those years ago due to what I felt was too much usage of stock footage and slow dialogue and to this day I still don't like watching it except to laugh at the odd parts. Among some questions I remember asking myself were, "Didn't the Heavy Arms just destroy that factory an episode ago? And why is the Epyon slicing that big space thing again for a third time?". Despite my dislike of the series, I have to admit something about it without a shadow of a doubt: I loved the designs of the hardware (ships, mobile suits, weapons, etc) and the action. And that is why it still has a place in my heart as the cause for my interest in anything Gundam-related.

swark34
November 28, 2012, 7:34 AM
I havent finished seed yet but so far its not that bad . Ive seen worse Gundam series than seed

Deathscythe!
November 28, 2012, 8:50 AM
Overall, I also prefer Gundam 00 (both seasons), if only because it's something I can pick up and watch at a whim and still enjoy it. With SEED, I have a harder time enjoying the episodes as they are due to how slow they can be. For me, SEED is best enjoyed when watched in a series rather than an episode here and there and possibly skipping over one or two. Design-wise, I like the remastered SEED just as much as Gundam 00 and both have their own quirks that have grown on me. In terms of the 00 movie, which many seem to consider as not that good and tend to separate it from the rest of the series as much as possible, I enjoyed it a good deal. It reminded me of Gurren Lagann, which was a great watch for me. I see the movie as this: Gurren Lagann + Gundam 00 universe + a heavy dose of beam spam = Well-spent and very entertaining and action-packed two hours.

Strangely, the first Gundam series I watched was Gundam Wing and.....I didn't like it. I found it strange when I first watched it all those years ago due to what I felt was too much usage of stock footage and slow dialogue and to this day I still don't like watching it except to laugh at the odd parts. Among some questions I remember asking myself were, "Didn't the Heavy Arms just destroy that factory an episode ago? And why is the Epyon slicing that big space thing again for a third time?". Despite my dislike of the series, I have to admit something about it without a shadow of a doubt: I loved the designs of the hardware (ships, mobile suits, weapons, etc) and the action. And that is why it still has a place in my heart as the cause for my interest in anything Gundam-related.

I'd been watching Seed (R2, not remastered) up until a while ago.
Would you mind telling me where to view the Remastered version ? I'd be able to make a comparsion between the remastered and original (for myself.)

Dlinker
November 28, 2012, 11:53 AM
I'd been watching Seed (R2, not remastered) up until a while ago.
Would you mind telling me where to view the Remastered version ? I'd be able to make a comparsion between the remastered and original (for myself.)

I watch it at the gundam.info website. I'm not sure if it's available in Germany, but it should be since the only ones that are restricted are Gundam AGE and Unicorn.

alphachruch
November 28, 2012, 5:34 PM
Wing was dark and kinda boring but i really wanted to finish it so i put it on hold, as well as turn a gundam ( turn a is less interesting than seed to me).

Deathscythe!
November 28, 2012, 5:42 PM
Wing....

You have to understand each story in order to like it.

I once had to apprise someone what Wufei's intentions were.
I'm not trying to assure you, but I personally think that Wing's character development was far better than other series' character development.

Dlinker
November 28, 2012, 6:53 PM
Wing....

You have to understand each story in order to like it.

I once had to apprise someone what Wufei's intentions were.
I'm not trying to assure you, but I personally think that Wing's character development was far better than other series' character development.

Perhaps, but I never really got the groove for it so it became difficult to follow. As a result, the only thing that kept me watching it was the action and the mecha. Maybe it will be different if I watch the subbed version instead. I tend to enjoy the original Japanese audio a bit more than the English dubbing, unless it's done really well (like, say, the dubbing for Zone of the Enders 2, which I actually liked more than the Japanese audio).

alphachruch
November 29, 2012, 9:12 PM
i dont know. I always watch dubbed, unless there isnt one. Then I watch subbed. But since I don't understand japanese yet I have too. I pay attention to Gundam because of the action and the anime quality. Characters do have to be developed. Satisfactory development is required, I can't just watch without knowing why he is doing this or that ya know. I also, I didn't understand Wing at all. The only person I liked was Trowa because I thought he the normal one, the others were all crazy. And other than the fact that they are against Oz (I think) and Rockafeller, I don't know anything (excuding Milliardo's relation to Relena)

Dlinker
November 29, 2012, 11:35 PM
i dont know. I always watch dubbed, unless there isnt one. Then I watch subbed. But since I don't understand japanese yet I have too. I pay attention to Gundam because of the action and the anime quality. Characters do have to be developed. Satisfactory development is required, I can't just watch without knowing why he is doing this or that ya know. I also, I didn't understand Wing at all. The only person I liked was Trowa because I thought he the normal one, the others were all crazy. And other than the fact that they are against Oz (I think) and Rockafeller, I don't know anything (excuding Milliardo's relation to Relena)


Haha, I always thought that whenever the name came up in any episode. I'm not trying to bash Gundam Wing; it simply wasn't for me for the reasons I mentioned. I enjoyed G Gundam and 08th MS Team way more (watched them around the same time) even if they didn't make much sense to back then too so it's not really due to the fact that Wing confused me often. Just the whole feel of the series didn't jive with me, aside from the mecha. If they decide to remake the whole series or...something to revive it similar to how SEED is being brought back, I would probably watch it again. I read up on the backstory so I'm hoping I won't get confused anymore. One thing stands: Romefeller Foundation will always sound like Rockafeller Foundation to me :)

Deathscythe!
November 30, 2012, 8:53 AM
Yep, exactly, Wing was one of the most complex animes back then (and has been ever since).

Judging from what I know, Wing's character development is too implicit to be comprehended by watching it only once.
But once you've ascertained what the reasons are, it's surprising how much hidden character development there is.


Speaking of character development : In spite of me feeling sorry for Graham Aker assuming the state of being Mr. Bushido, I fancy Mr. Bushido and his character development most.
(Now I'm transgressing) I like Mr. Bushido more than I like the "moderate" Graham Aker.
00's character development superficially partially resembles Wing's.

I didn't discover any character development while I was viewing Seed.
I didn't understand anyone's but Kira's. (and that wasn't too difficult to understand, differently from Wufei or Duo)

Dlinker
November 30, 2012, 12:27 PM
Yeah, I'd say Gundam Wing (at least the dubbed one) takes a bit of time to understand all the way. One can still enjoy it because of the action and the mecha, but everything else about it will be a blur. It's similar to watching a Simspons episode back when you were a kid and then re-watching it now. It could have been funny then, but it's even funnier now that you know what the jokes and references are all about.

I agree, Gundam 00's character development is similar to Wing's and simpler to follow as well. Maybe it's the more straightforward dialogue, but I had no issues following how each character came to be. Graham Aker's character is a good example of one that was easy to follow and that was due to how he was presented.

Haha, I'm surprised you didn't see much character development in SEED. I felt it was rushed at times, but I thought it was easy to see. I constantly asked myself as I was watching the episodes how a person of their age (teenagers more or less) would react to the situations they're in and go from there. Kira's development was apparent since he's the main dude (also one that I felt was rushed), but the others had their own moments as well: Dearka seeing a first-hand example of the damage he caused when he was in the brig onboard the ArchAngel, Sai coming to terms with the fact that he's such a minor person compared to Kira even though a while ago he felt he was better than him, and Flay finally deciding to do something right about her situation. I'm sure there are others, but I'd need to watch some of the episodes again to be sure, haha.

Deathscythe!
November 30, 2012, 1:55 PM
Yeah, I'd say Gundam Wing (at least the dubbed one) takes a bit of time to understand all the way. One can still enjoy it because of the action and the mecha, but everything else about it will be a blur. It's similar to watching a Simspons episode back when you were a kid and then re-watching it now. It could have been funny then, but it's even funnier now that you know what the jokes and references are all about.

I agree, Gundam 00's character development is similar to Wing's and simpler to follow as well. Maybe it's the more straightforward dialogue, but I had no issues following how each character came to be. Graham Aker's character is a good example of one that was easy to follow and that was due to how he was presented.

Haha, I'm surprised you didn't see much character development in SEED. I felt it was rushed at times, but I thought it was easy to see. I constantly asked myself as I was watching the episodes how a person of their age (teenagers more or less) would react to the situations they're in and go from there. Kira's development was apparent since he's the main dude (also one that I felt was rushed), but the others had their own moments as well: Dearka seeing a first-hand example of the damage he caused when he was in the brig onboard the ArchAngel, Sai coming to terms with the fact that he's such a minor person compared to Kira even though a while ago he felt he was better than him, and Flay finally deciding to do something right about her situation. I'm sure there are others, but I'd need to watch some of the episodes again to be sure, haha.

Yeah right.

Wing : The character development has always been too complex for everyone to understand.

00 : Well, it indeed resembles Wing's, but there's one decently important aspect missing - I'm not going to reveal it.
M. Bushido is totally admirable.

Seed : Now that you have mentioned it, I did somehow notice their characters develop. But I somehow disregarded them for they were exhibited being
unimportant.

Dlinker
November 30, 2012, 4:54 PM
True, they didn't dwell on side-characters much in SEED so it was easy to ignore whatever development they were having. I thought it was appropriate seeing as there were so many side-characters. It was enough to let you know that they weren't nameless uniformed bodies. And really, considering their situation, it's kinda tough to have much development unless they all became something like Flay, freaking out often and occasionally going completely nuts.

Deathscythe!
November 30, 2012, 5:04 PM
Well, the main issue as to why the characters are likely to be ignored is, that the stress/focus is only on Kira most of all.

Super coordinator here, super coordinator there ... well, it was still entertaining to watch it, especially with a Rau Le Creuset messing things up at the end.

alphachruch
December 3, 2012, 3:18 AM
Yes yes. The whole 1st half of seed was all about kira and his coordinator power. It was stupid really. None of the other characters are really shown. The only thing i know about the friends is that fllay and ssigh were engaged. Everything is a complete blur. Unlike 00. I know who Lyle dylandy is and i know setsuna's past. And how alleluhah is mentally damaged (or gifted). It was much easier and it wasnt choppy. It flowed with the rest of the story.

Dlinker
December 3, 2012, 3:34 AM
Eh, I was okay with the focus on Kira throughout the first half of SEED. He is the main character after all and I always thought the producers wanted it that way: here you have this kid with godly abilities and this is how he affects everyone and the world around him. Considering how many characters there could potentially have been to focus on, I thought it was a good idea to narrow things down even though it wasn't executed as well as it could have been. By that I mean they could have put in a few extra scenes that flesh out the more common side-characters.

In comparison to 00, which had a more diverse focus. Instead of one or two people, it was a group of people and was done pretty well. I'm sure it would have been similar if the entire focus of the series was on Setsuna only. Whether or not this approach would work for SEED, I have no clue.

alphachruch
December 3, 2012, 4:00 AM
SEED: ep 16. Does fllay have sex with kira since she is naked and his bed?

Dlinker
December 3, 2012, 11:52 AM
That's the general consensus, yeah. Kira tapped that @$$ and thus earning Sai's disapproval and dislike for several episodes until he comes back and starts becoming Jesus-like.

A bit unnecessary to me when I saw that episode, but then I realized Flay is just being realistic. In a situation like that, with all of the stress and anxiety going around, it was bound to happen and it would have been unrealistic if it didn't seeing as they're teens and all.

Deathscythe!
December 3, 2012, 2:03 PM
SEED: ep 16. Does fllay have sex with kira since she is naked and his bed?

Yes, this is briefly revealed at the end.


Yes yes. The whole 1st half of seed was all about kira and his coordinator power. It was stupid really. None of the other characters are really shown. The only thing i know about the friends is that fllay and ssigh were engaged. Everything is a complete blur. Unlike 00. I know who Lyle dylandy is and i know setsuna's past. And how alleluhah is mentally damaged (or gifted). It was much easier and it wasnt choppy. It flowed with the rest of the story.

Well, I am unaware of whether there are any novels/mangas concerning with each one's childhood, but Gundam 00 did do really well in that relation. Somehow similarly to Gundam Wing, whereas Gundam Wing's character development is waaay to complex.

And the group factor. YES! It's sometimes better to cast a complete group than just one person.
That depends on the story, Seed could've been lke this as well, instead of that "patchwork-crew" consisting of deserters, so to speak.


Eh, I was okay with the focus on Kira throughout the first half of SEED. He is the main character after all and I always thought the producers wanted it that way: here you have this kid with godly abilities and this is how he affects everyone and the world around him. Considering how many characters there could potentially have been to focus on, I thought it was a good idea to narrow things down even though it wasn't executed as well as it could have been. By that I mean they could have put in a few extra scenes that flesh out the more common side-characters.

In comparison to 00, which had a more diverse focus. Instead of one or two people, it was a group of people and was done pretty well. I'm sure it would have been similar if the entire focus of the series was on Setsuna only. Whether or not this approach would work for SEED, I have no clue.

I still would've been delighted to have Yzak's, Rau Le Creuset's (there was still much to be unravelled), Nichol's and perhaps Dearka's personality elaborated.

Why is Yzak that eager to conquer the O.M.N.I (that's the abbreviation for the Earth Federation or whatever it's called, right ?)
Why does Dearka always feel like dating women ?

Dlinker
December 3, 2012, 3:12 PM
Yeah, an episode or two (or even just half an episode) with some quick scenes for the more prominent side-characters like Yzak, Dearka, and Rau (more so for Rau since he's the main baddie) would have helped in giving them more life. I think the new-ish SEED manga may be doing that or at least I hope it will do that.

I always accepted those aspects of Dearka and Yzak at face value without much questioning. It was clear the series wasn't going to elaborate on them so I didn't focus on it too much.

alphachruch
December 3, 2012, 5:49 PM
I wasnt able to know who piloted the zaft gundams until episode 20. Just sayin

Deathscythe!
December 3, 2012, 6:14 PM
Just keep in mind that there's one character turning out to be significant afterwards.
The pilot encountering Kira first goes by the name "Miguel" and appears in Gundam Seed Astray.

extend
December 21, 2012, 4:23 PM
I hope I could join the discussion about Seed and Seed Destiny.

Seed was ok. It's a likeable series for me. After the show ended, I was happy to know that another C.E. based series is gonna happen.

The first part of Seed resembles Mobile Suit Gundam 0079. I felt the story compelling. I was able to shrug off the Jesus Yamato thing because of several events.

There was a moment that he seemed so stressed and tired physically and emotionally after personally encountering Rau and learnig about the Ultimate Coordinator. A scene was shown on Kira's first person view where he's regaining focus of his eyesight while the fighting was viewed from his screen inside Freedom.

When he heard Flay's voice, he wasn't able to fight properly and head on to rescue her. Freedom's head got chopped off for the first time. It's clear that he wasn't thinking straight at that moment for the ultimate coordinator be caught off-guard.

Lastly, he failed to save Flay.

I was like, Kira might be acting tough after his character "transformation," but he still showing weaknesses.

The situations in Seed was something... I can't find the right words... unavoidable and the main characters had to go through it - as if what had transpired through the series was the best possible outcome from their situations.

Now, in Seed Destiny, the situations could have been avoided. Things could have been turned around differently. I was like, "Hey, they could have chosen to do this or that?" Everyone wasn't even thinking rationally with all these misplaced anger.

Seriously, after Neo broke his promise blatantly, Shinn should had been mad with Neo and not with Freedom. Shinn also seemed to forgot that he was to blame himself after Athrun predicted that they could possibly face Stellar again in battle. There was simply no regret and realization on his part.

Deathscythe!
December 21, 2012, 6:38 PM
Well, I've always acknowledged the end of Seed to be rushed and bad.
PRETTY BAD.

It was like : 2 superbly overpowered beam spammers with their extortionately impressive meteor units vs Rau and the providence.

I haven't watched Seed Destiny yet, but I am able to rightly claim this to be one of the worst endings ever.

Dlinker
December 21, 2012, 8:44 PM
I hope I could join the discussion about Seed and Seed Destiny.

Seed was ok. It's a likeable series for me. After the show ended, I was happy to know that another C.E. based series is gonna happen.

The first part of Seed resembles Mobile Suit Gundam 0079. I felt the story compelling. I was able to shrug off the Jesus Yamato thing because of several events.

There was a moment that he seemed so stressed and tired physically and emotionally after personally encountering Rau and learnig about the Ultimate Coordinator. A scene was shown on Kira's first person view where he's regaining focus of his eyesight while the fighting was viewed from his screen inside Freedom.

When he heard Flay's voice, he wasn't able to fight properly and head on to rescue her. Freedom's head got chopped off for the first time. It's clear that he wasn't thinking straight at that moment for the ultimate coordinator be caught off-guard.

Lastly, he failed to save Flay.

I was like, Kira might be acting tough after his character "transformation," but he still showing weaknesses.

The situations in Seed was something... I can't find the right words... unavoidable and the main characters had to go through it - as if what had transpired through the series was the best possible outcome from their situations.

Now, in Seed Destiny, the situations could have been avoided. Things could have been turned around differently. I was like, "Hey, they could have chosen to do this or that?" Everyone wasn't even thinking rationally with all these misplaced anger.

Seriously, after Neo broke his promise blatantly, Shinn should had been mad with Neo and not with Freedom. Shinn also seemed to forgot that he was to blame himself after Athrun predicted that they could possibly face Stellar again in battle. There was simply no regret and realization on his part.

Completely agree with how you saw SEED. I'm still waiting anxiously to watch SEED Destiny once it's in HD to see what all the fuss is about. I can't really make a comparison between that and SEED and something in me is wanting to make the comparison, haha. As always, I don't watch with a discerning eye aside from whether or not I'm getting entertained.

alphachruch
December 22, 2012, 12:00 AM
Gundam in its simplest form is a teen boy with a certain difference that causes him to be boss in a Gundam, but still have an emotional transformation. This rules applies to all gundam lead roles. Ex: Setsuna. Emphasies that there is no God while reforming the world. Heero: Try to win, but the end always changes. He also has to face Relena. And he has to go against his rival/ally Mr. Peacecraft. Kira: Is a Coordinator that ends up being emotionally damaged since he can't save everyone.
Am i right?

Filt Asuno
December 22, 2012, 1:09 AM
Listen if you want to see SEEDs Side Characters Devolpment you have to pay attention. Notice how Yzak becomes more Enuthusastic Killed Earth Allience Officers as the show goes on. How Kuzzy Reallizes that the War Stuff isnt for him and leaves the Archangle. How Sai Reallizes that Kira is better then him. How Mirialia gets over Tolles death. Little Things like that. How Kira tries to find his place in this world and in the war. For SEED You have to pay attention its not like 00 Were everything is spelled out for you. In SEED You have to pay attention and in Wing u need to watch more than once to understand. I love SEED and Wing finding them both amazing series. As for 00 Season 1 was great but it went down hill in S2. Setsuna had like no character devolpment at all. Kira,Shinn and Heero had way more then Setsuna ever could.The Only Characters in SEED Who Didnt have development were Rau {Who was crazy so it would be like giving Ali Al Schatez devolpment it doesnt work} and the Drugies {Same thing as Rau Insane so no need}

Deathscythe!
December 22, 2012, 5:51 AM
Listen if you want to see SEEDs Side Characters Devolpment you have to pay attention. Notice how Yzak becomes more Enuthusastic Killed Earth Allience Officers as the show goes on. How Kuzzy Reallizes that the War Stuff isnt for him and leaves the Archangle. How Sai Reallizes that Kira is better then him. How Mirialia gets over Tolles death. Little Things like that. How Kira tries to find his place in this world and in the war. For SEED You have to pay attention its not like 00 Were everything is spelled out for you. In SEED You have to pay attention and in Wing u need to watch more than once to understand. I love SEED and Wing finding them both amazing series. As for 00 Season 1 was great but it went down hill in S2. Setsuna had like no character devolpment at all. Kira,Shinn and Heero had way more then Setsuna ever could.The Only Characters in SEED Who Didnt have development were Rau {Who was crazy so it would be like giving Ali Al Schatez devolpment it doesnt work} and the Drugies {Same thing as Rau Insane so no need}

I don't recall Mr. Bushido's character being unravelled entirely.

extend
December 22, 2012, 9:04 AM
Listen if you want to see SEEDs Side Characters Devolpment you have to pay attention. Notice how Yzak becomes more Enuthusastic Killed Earth Allience Officers as the show goes on. How Kuzzy Reallizes that the War Stuff isnt for him and leaves the Archangle. How Sai Reallizes that Kira is better then him. How Mirialia gets over Tolles death. Little Things like that. How Kira tries to find his place in this world and in the war. For SEED You have to pay attention its not like 00 Were everything is spelled out for you. In SEED You have to pay attention and in Wing u need to watch more than once to understand. I love SEED and Wing finding them both amazing series. As for 00 Season 1 was great but it went down hill in S2. Setsuna had like no character devolpment at all. Kira,Shinn and Heero had way more then Setsuna ever could.The Only Characters in SEED Who Didnt have development were Rau {Who was crazy so it would be like giving Ali Al Schatez devolpment it doesnt work} and the Drugies {Same thing as Rau Insane so no need}

I thought both seasons of 00 were great. I'd like to view them as a whole series. I think Setsuna's character development on the first part was a preparation for his Innovation.

Deathscythe!
December 22, 2012, 9:20 AM
Well, honestly speaking, I wasn't actually pleased to watch this whole Trans-Am and Beamspamming stuff in S2.

The characters I like are :

Mr. Bushido/Graham Aker (especially S2)
Setsuna (emphasisingly S1)
Ali-Al Saachez (As we bear the same name and because he's really capable of fighting)
Tieria Erde
Hallelujah
Lockon S1
Saji

Alright, I like the characters, but I don't fancy the MS designs, except for Exia and Arios.

extend
December 22, 2012, 10:09 AM
Forgive me for being biased on 00. I liked almost everything about it except the movie. I initially did not liked the designs of the Gundams, but I grew to liked them.

I'm a Zone of the Enders fan, and when Trans-Am was first demonstrated by Exia, I was so pumped up! Zero Shift!
The only thing I did not like was the Trans-Am burst Pixie Dust of warmth and compassion. That was just crazy.

Deathscythe!
December 22, 2012, 10:53 AM
Forgive me for being biased on 00. I liked almost everything about it except the movie. I initially did not liked the designs of the Gundams, but I grew to liked them.
.

Well, we're not that different after all. I loved (and I've loved it ever since) S1 but s2 really ruined it for me.

extend
December 22, 2012, 11:30 AM
Well, we're not that different after all. I loved (and I've loved it ever since) S1 but s2 really ruined it for me.

I never really had serious problems with 00 - S2 to be totally ruined with it. I really think S2 was a proper progression of S1 events.

As for my entire Gundam experience, Seed Destiny and Age are the only series that really disappointed me.

Seed Destiny has been plagued with wrong and irrational decisions by the characters. Age was just lackluster.

Deathscythe!
December 22, 2012, 12:28 PM
I haven't seen any of those.
I haven't even been acquainted with what happens in Age.

But I suppose, none of them is hardly as interesting as Turn A.

extend
December 23, 2012, 5:55 AM
Even though I didn't like those two, I won't discourage you to watch it. After all, it's Gundam, and we're all Gundam fans here, and we all have different views and likes. I can like something that you don't like and vice versa.

Maybe you'll find something interesting on those two series.

Dlinker
December 23, 2012, 2:01 PM
Even though I didn't like those two, I won't discourage you to watch it. After all, it's Gundam, and we're all Gundam fans here, and we all have different views and likes. I can like something that you don't like and vice versa.

Maybe you'll find something interesting on those two series.

My sentiments exactly. Nothing wrong with having opinions on what we like and don't like about any Gundam series. My only thing is that we should try to watch a series first before having strong opinions about it. I never watched Turn A so I can't agree or disagree on whether it's boring. I watched Char's Counterattack two days ago in pieces and actually found it enjoyable. I thought I wouldn't stand it because it's so old, but I was wrong. Even the dub I found to be quite well-done, haha. I enjoy watching both seasons of Gundam 00, although I haven't seen all of the second season to really decide whether it's a good continuation of the first season. As for SEED, I'm at the 40th episode and still enjoying it, although now I'm starting to have some reservations. Mainly Lacus and how she's able to do so much with seemingly so little effort, but despite that, I'd easily watch the series again.

As for AGE, I've only watched a couple of episodes and I was a bit bored by it, but that's normal for me. I'm always bored during the first few episodes of any series unless it's based off a book. Then it becomes interesting from the get-go because I'd be too busy making comparisons :)

alphachruch
December 24, 2012, 4:55 PM
I do agree. 00 S1 and S2 were both equally great in my opinion. they just had different topics to follow. That may have made some people disapointed in the way they tackled those topics. The designs for the gundams in S2 weren't as great as S1. Like Seravee and Cherudim. I also liked how Saji finally had a important role in S2 whereas in S1 he was just a civilian for the viewers to see how normal people felt about CB. But it was still great. People may have also disliked S2 since the enemies are more equal to CB. Is that why you guys didnt like S2?

Jae102
December 24, 2012, 5:31 PM
I do agree. 00 S1 and S2 were both equally great in my opinion. they just had different topics to follow. That may have made some people disapointed in the way they tackled those topics. The designs for the gundams in S2 weren't as great as S1. Like Seravee and Cherudim. I also liked how Saji finally had a important role in S2 whereas in S1 he was just a civilian for the viewers to see how normal people felt about CB. But it was still great. People may have also disliked S2 since the enemies are more equal to CB. Is that why you guys didnt like S2?

Arios was wack too.

They should have upgraded Seravee too.

GN-008GNHW/3G Seravee Gundam GNHW/3G
http://images.wikia.com/gundam/images/0/0c/Seravee_3G.png

And Cheridium to

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/GN-006GNHW/R_Cherudim_Gundam_GNHW/R

Much earlier in the series.

alphachruch
December 24, 2012, 6:03 PM
ya that was the better design for seravee than the original. the Arios Ascalon was also better than the original. As for Cherudim...nothing at all.

Jae102
December 24, 2012, 6:27 PM
Do you believe 00 Qan [T] Full Saber, Zabanya, Raphael and Harute should have been made my the end of 00 and Decarte made an earlier appearance?

So we would have

00 Qan [T] Full Saber vs Reborns Gundam

Both Gundam would have Quantum Brain Control System and have twin Genuine GN Drives

Harute vs Revive, Healing Care and Deacarte

True Super Soilder vs the three of them

Zabanya vs GNW-20000/J Jagd Arche Gundam
Give Zabanya a beam saber and have him go toe to toe Saachez

Tierra Raphael vs Devine Nova in the GNMA-0001V2_Regnant_2

I think it would have been much better because they would've taken out the majority of the Alaws.

Dlinker
December 24, 2012, 7:13 PM
Hmmm, the storyline would have to change quite a bit to allow this to happen since CB and everyone else took their time building them (from what I can tell) and the purposes were different. Weren't those suits designed for mass engagement instead of more small-scaled battles? I'm all for having the Qan [T] show up much sooner, though. That thing needed more screen time. Every time I look at the HG kit I built of it, I always wonder what it could have done...

Jae102
December 24, 2012, 7:37 PM
The final battle was a pretty wide scaled battle.

00 Qan [T] took a lot of time because it took 2 years to design the two new GN Drive but 00 Qan [T] Full Saber works different since it can use 00 Raiser's GN Drives and work like 00 Raiser except being more powerful. I would've been the final upgrade for Celestial Being.

Dlinker
December 24, 2012, 11:18 PM
I did some quick reading on the Full Saber and you're right, it's the mid-point between the 00-Raiser and the Qan [T] that was in the movie, and it uses normal GN Drives instead of the new stuff the final result was using. Looks like the Full Saber could have been a much more useful weapon than the GN Sword V as well, but possibly bulkier to use overall. It doesn't have the elegance and straightforward purpose of the Sword V, which actually makes it a good candidate to use against the Reborns.

I think it's overkill, though. The Reborns had enough trouble with the 00-Raiser; the Qan [T] would just crush it without a moment's notice, rendering the other battles a moot point because Setsuna would just aid everyone after. Or make them all understand using GN Particle voodoo.

Jae102
December 24, 2012, 11:35 PM
I did some quick reading on the Full Saber and you're right, it's the mid-point between the 00-Raiser and the Qan [T] that was in the movie, and it uses normal GN Drives instead of the new stuff the final result was using. Looks like the Full Saber could have been a much more useful weapon than the GN Sword V as well, but possibly bulkier to use overall. It doesn't have the elegance and straightforward purpose of the Sword V, which actually makes it a good candidate to use against the Reborns.

I think it's overkill, though. The Reborns had enough trouble with the 00-Raiser; the Qan [T] would just crush it without a moment's notice, rendering the other battles a moot point because Setsuna would just aid everyone after. Or make them all understand using GN Particle voodoo.

But remember Reborn Cannon would be stronger too it would have the same tech that's in 00 Qan [T] Full Saber like the Twin Drive system with two authentic GN Drives along with the 00 Qan [T] Full Saber Quantum Control System.

Dlinker
December 25, 2012, 1:28 AM
But remember Reborn Cannon would be stronger too it would have the same tech that's in 00 Qan [T] Full Saber like the Twin Drive system with two authentic GN Drives along with the 00 Qan [T] Full Saber Quantum Control System.

In that case, the battle might play out the same as in the series with them both being rather evenly matched to the point where they have to rely on the old stuff to finish their fight. Or...maybe it will swing towards the Qant [T] more because Setsuna makes a better Innovator than Ribbons, but it will likely end up with suit being damaged quite a bit still. This is all just optimistic speculation though; it's kinda tough to say who will win because we don't know enough about what could happen. One can say Ribbons won't win simply because there's no chance he'll get a real deal GN Drive (let alone two of them) due to plot reasons, you know? Or that Setsuna pulls off some amazing GN particle magic and shuts down his suit at the perfect time, haha.

I looked through your list again and had a thought about the Zabanya fight with the Jagd Arche. The Jagd Arche is an old suit compared to the Zabanya, no? I know this isn't the True Battleground thread so I'll limit my thoughts on it, but if that's the case, it should win by virtue of better tech alone even if it's a close-combat battle.

alphachruch
December 25, 2012, 1:34 AM
Ok. Um. To have the switch up many things would have to happen. I dont think that would be possible since CB recycled S2 gundams to create the massive movie gundams with extra parts. But if we went from massive to small then it wouldnt quite work. Like Zabanya to Cherudim.

Jae102
December 25, 2012, 4:37 PM
In that case, the battle might play out the same as in the series with them both being rather evenly matched to the point where they have to rely on the old stuff to finish their fight. Or...maybe it will swing towards the Qant [T] more because Setsuna makes a better Innovator than Ribbons, but it will likely end up with suit being damaged quite a bit still. This is all just optimistic speculation though; it's kinda tough to say who will win because we don't know enough about what could happen. One can say Ribbons won't win simply because there's no chance he'll get a real deal GN Drive (let alone two of them) due to plot reasons, you know? Or that Setsuna pulls off some amazing GN particle magic and shuts down his suit at the perfect time, haha.

I looked through your list again and had a thought about the Zabanya fight with the Jagd Arche. The Jagd Arche is an old suit compared to the Zabanya, no? I know this isn't the True Battleground thread so I'll limit my thoughts on it, but if that's the case, it should win by virtue of better tech alone even if it's a close-combat battle.

Yeah they would be evenly matched but remember Setsuna wouldn't have Full Control over 00 Qan [T] yet because he just received it and Ribbons would be more familir with the Reborn Gundam tech so it would be a battle.

Look at where they fought Zabanya would be limited to a beam saber and beam pistols.


Ok. Um. To have the switch up many things would have to happen. I dont think that would be possible since CB recycled S2 gundams to create the massive movie gundams with extra parts. But if we went from massive to small then it wouldnt quite work. Like Zabanya to Cherudim.

Huh? Exaplain?

Dlinker
December 25, 2012, 6:42 PM
Yeah they would be evenly matched but remember Setsuna wouldn't have Full Control over 00 Qan [T] yet because he just received it and Ribbons would be more familir with the Reborn Gundam tech so it would be a battle.

Look at where they fought Zabanya would be limited to a beam saber and beam pistols.



Exactly why it would be an even battle. True, Setsuna won't be accustomed to the Qan [T] yet, but he adapts pretty quickly so it will only be a momentary hindrance. That pretty much means it won't be too different from how it was in the show, haha.

For the Zabanya, we don't have enough info to say accurately how it will perform in close combat, although if it manages to keep its beam pistols, it may provide a big challenge for the Jagd Arche. For all we know, the suit's got something hidden that can only be used when in close quarters. The movie showed that it can blast things to pieces no matter the range or numbers so I'm assuming it won't be so different in a more confined space.

Jae102
December 25, 2012, 6:50 PM
Exactly why it would be an even battle. True, Setsuna won't be accustomed to the Qan [T] yet, but he adapts pretty quickly so it will only be a momentary hindrance. That pretty much means it won't be too different from how it was in the show, haha.

For the Zabanya, we don't have enough info to say accurately how it will perform in close combat, although if it manages to keep its beam pistols, it may provide a big challenge for the Jagd Arche. For all we know, the suit's got something hidden that can only be used when in close quarters. The movie showed that it can blast things to pieces no matter the range or numbers so I'm assuming it won't be so different in a more confined space.

It should be more exciting because it probably would've been a 2-3 episode fight along with the other battle that are going on. If they just took how battles worked in the UC and the fast paced of 00 at the right times it would be a legendary Gundam fight.

Yeah he might just blast Ali but remember they were in Veda so he wouldn't want to destroy of Damage Veda because their mission was to retake Veda.

Dlinker
December 26, 2012, 1:55 AM
It should be more exciting because it probably would've been a 2-3 episode fight along with the other battle that are going on. If they just took how battles worked in the UC and the fast paced of 00 at the right times it would be a legendary Gundam fight.

Yeah he might just blast Ali but remember they were in Veda so he wouldn't want to destroy of Damage Veda because their mission was to retake Veda.

It certainly would make for a good show, which is a big plus in my book :) The producers might even be able to spin it more towards a UC-style confrontation where the characters have to resort to different tactics to get the upper hand. I know they're both superhuman more or less so it's kinda redundant, but it's more interesting than slugging it out face-to-face and turning into something short of G Gundam. Not that it's a bad thing to go toe-to-toe; just don't do it for the whole fight, haha. As long as it doesn't go to the point where the battle becomes boring, it could be better than the original battle.

And you're right, the Zabanya will have to pick its shots to reduce collateral damage, which could play against it. We might then see how precise Lockon can be with his shooting when it comes to close range, or if he's been having some secret melee combat training that he suddenly brings out, surprising Ali and balancing the field.

alphachruch
December 26, 2012, 3:04 AM
ok Jae. let me explain. In the gundam wikia description it says that Zabanya was created with the recycled parts of Cherudim and other pieces. But if you compare Cherudim and Zabanya you will find a very big size difference. It also goes like that for Harute and Raphael. Harute has Archer mixed with it and Raphael have Seravee only mixed with it since Seraphim becomes its own serparate gundam. So if you remember when we discussed the transition from 00 Raiser to QAN[T] and how we disliked the sized difference. Then that would be the same case here since if you put the movie before S2 then the really big gundam that originated from S2 would transform to smaller gundams that are the S2 gundams. Ex: Instead of Dynames to Cherudim to Zabanya you would have Dynames to Zabanya to Cherudim.

Dlinker
December 26, 2012, 12:24 PM
I got the feeling that in his question, Jae102 was assuming the movie hasn't happened at all yet and that the movie suits are introduced as part of Season 2. That means the transition is the same as in the movie (Dynames --> Cherudim --> Zabanya), but just included within one series instead of being saved up for the movie.

Jae102, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

But you're right in that it still requires a huge change to the storyline and possibly extending S2 to another 10 episodes or so.

alphachruch
December 26, 2012, 1:13 PM
The movie with Cherudim?! and raiser and arios and seravee. OK if that is so then it works but, yes a few more episodes would be needed to introduce and use the newer tech that the gundam need to fight the ELS. They need like an episode for the Quantum mechanics thing. Also, if the movie was before S2 then the whole Shenberg's plan would be screwed up. Cause it would be : Step 2: Expand humans to space. Step 3: Make peace within the humans. But the real plan wanted humans to be peaceful prior to venturing in space so that conflict would not increase in space. And to fix that story mess then the whole S2 would be different. I rather keep it the same. So just agree with the movie coming after S2. I wish they made an S3 with the upgraded 5th gen gundams or an anime prequel to Gundam 00.

Jae102
December 26, 2012, 3:00 PM
I got the feeling that in his question, Jae102 was assuming the movie hasn't happened at all yet and that the movie suits are introduced as part of Season 2. That means the transition is the same as in the movie (Dynames --> Cherudim --> Zabanya), but just included within one series instead of being saved up for the movie.

Jae102, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

But you're right in that it still requires a huge change to the storyline and possibly extending S2 to another 10 episodes or so.

You're right. I'm saying we skip the movie because it was good if you understand it but if the AOT Gundam were in the final fight against Ribbons along with an episode extension 00 would've been awesome.

Dlinker
December 26, 2012, 3:44 PM
Not a bad idea if the producers can squeeze in the new suits without them feeling rushed. However, I feel the movie has its place in the whole scheme of things since it showed the culmination of what understanding each other can bring. I would feel like something is missing from the series if all we're left with after a huge battle is the fact that CB demolished another baddie, you know? I don't know how the movie can play out if this route happened, but I bet it will involve more over-the-top enhancements of the suits, haha.

Or better yet, leave the suits as is and focus on the story/characters more. The producers will blow their wad on the epic battle at the end of S2 so the follow-up movie will be more story-driven and making better use of what's already available.

alphachruch
December 27, 2012, 6:02 PM
I was thinking. What if the movie was turned into episodes? Then it would make the transtition much easier. And more gundams are ideas could pop up in the episodes. Probably make everything easier to merge together.

Dlinker
December 27, 2012, 6:44 PM
That would work. It allows for better pacing as well, assuming the producers don't try to cram too many things in one episode. As for more Gundams, ehhh, I'm kinda unsure of that because it already seems like there are plenty to go around and are getting ignored or having only some of their features/capabilities brought out. Why introduce newer equipment when there is still a chance to do more with what's already there, you know?

Jae102
December 27, 2012, 6:51 PM
That would work. It allows for better pacing as well, assuming the producers don't try to cram too many things in one episode. As for more Gundams, ehhh, I'm kinda unsure of that because it already seems like there are plenty to go around and are getting ignored or having only some of their features/capabilities brought out. Why introduce newer equipment when there is still a chance to do more with what's already there, you know?

If only Tomino could get full rights to Gundam 00 and work with Yōsuke Kuroda te devlop the story.

Dlinker
December 27, 2012, 8:08 PM
Haha, provided Tomino is on-board for it and won't change things too much. Sometimes I wish they make a series that's not really driven by how much kits, figures, or toys it sells.

Jae102
December 27, 2012, 8:38 PM
Haha, provided Tomino is on-board for it and won't change things too much. Sometimes I wish they make a series that's not really driven by how much kits, figures, or toys it sells.

That's the problem with Gundam lately which is why Tomino's calling his Gundam series other names. Sad but true.

alphachruch
January 27, 2013, 11:42 AM
Ok thread is kinda dead. So in an attept to revive it here comes another topic to discuss about.

I am almost done with SEED. I have already seen 00, G, and AGE. Ive seen parts of Wing and Turn A. And im considering watching SEED DESTINY to follow the story, even if it will make me rage because how stupid it is. So what Gundam should i watch next?

Deathscythe!
January 27, 2013, 1:21 PM
Ok thread is kinda dead. So in an attept to revive it here comes another topic to discuss about.

I am almost done with SEED. I have already seen 00, G, and AGE. Ive seen parts of Wing and Turn A. And im considering watching SEED DESTINY to follow the story, even if it will make me rage because how stupid it is. So what Gundam should i watch next?

Oh, Gundam Seed Destiny.

Having completed Seed within 2 weeks, I wanted to proceed to finish the entire C.E timeline.

I had seen 6 episodes of Destiny when I forsook it. It was just not what I had been anticipating.

Haven't you gotten into UC yet ?
However, I'd watch WING if I were you. Then I'd either view X or the UC timeline.

Dlinker
January 27, 2013, 3:26 PM
Oh, Gundam Seed Destiny.

Having completed Seed within 2 weeks, I wanted to proceed to finish the entire C.E timeline.

I had seen 6 episodes of Destiny when I forsook it. It was just not what I had been anticipating.

Haven't you gotten into UC yet ?
However, I'd watch WING if I were you. Then I'd either view X or the UC timeline.

I second this. Watch Turn-A last after everything else since it's very different from the others, but also rather similar. Kinda like a reminisce of a past experience.

Deathscythe!
January 27, 2013, 4:30 PM
I second this. Watch Turn-A last after everything else since it's very different from the others, but also rather similar. Kinda like a reminisce of a past experience.

To contribute to your advice, it seems binding for me to say that Turn A was intensely well written by Tomino. But it really depends on whether you favor a peaceful Gundam Anime or not. There are a host of contrasts to Seed.

Seed = Futuristic in General, especially the Gundams. Additonally, it features much violence.
T
Turn A = You've watched a few episodes of it, right ? Well, you might figure out yourself what occurs in this show.
It contains a tranquil atmosphere and it's well animated (the sort of animation I prefer most and that implies, there's another contrast to Seed. )
The mobile suit designs ... well, I like the Turn A and the Sumo. Undoubedly, compared to the rest of the Gundamiverse (lol, invented a new word :3 )
it seems to have been designed by someone who originates (and therefore pertains to) from another world.

thwalker13
January 27, 2013, 8:40 PM
I'd finish watching Wing as well. Wing is what got me into Gundam. Hence I've seen 00, SEED, Destiny, G-Gundam, Mobile Suit Gundam, Zeta, 0083, War in the Pocket, and Char's Counter Attack. After watching wing, I'd delve into the UC timeline. It's by far the most in depth of them all.

alphachruch
January 28, 2013, 3:14 PM
Well im not sure about UC. UC is very realistic and im not so sure if i will be interested. Since all the other gundams i have seen are unrealistic in a way. I can hold Turn A and Wing. I do want to see Wing. To tell u the truth i have already seen like 27 episodes of it but i just cant stay on it since i feel that it is too dark.

Deathscythe!
January 28, 2013, 3:39 PM
Well im not sure about UC. UC is very realistic and im not so sure if i will be interested. Since all the other gundams i have seen are unrealistic in a way. I can hold Turn A and Wing. I do want to see Wing. To tell u the truth i have already seen like 27 episodes of it but i just cant stay on it since i feel that it is too dark.

Hold on a sec.

Alright, I am able to agree with your point of UC being realistic.
But Wing is as realistic as UC, with Heero Yuy excluded.

Have you heard of Newtypes yet ? (Sure you have for you've been a member of these forums for long enough now. )
Newtypes are what makes Gundam unrealistic.
Don't get me wrong. I like newtypes. However, a series not featuring them (many UC OVAs) delights me better since its entirely realistic.

I don't find the series you've seen that unrealistic. Surely are they a little unrealistic (Humanity will not have managed to develop Gundam 00's Suits by 2306) but hey, Gundam was originally based on realism.

Jae102
January 28, 2013, 4:43 PM
Hold on a sec.

Alright, I am able to agree with your point of UC being realistic.
But Wing is as realistic as UC, with Heero Yuy excluded.

Have you heard of Newtypes yet ? (Sure you have for you've been a member of these forums for long enough now. )
Newtypes are what makes Gundam unrealistic.
Don't get me wrong. I like newtypes. However, a series not featuring them (many UC OVAs) delights me better since its entirely realistic.

I don't find the series you've seen that unrealistic. Surely are they a little unrealistic (Humanity will not have managed to develop Gundam 00's Suits by 2306) but hey, Gundam was originally based on realism.

Wing as realistic. Deathscyhte hell. The Gundam are in destructable so bad to the point where only a Gundam only has a chance agaisnt a Gundam. Let's not forget Zech's death, or he was supposed to die. No not even close.

Dlinker
January 28, 2013, 4:53 PM
Yeah, I agree with Jae102 on this. Wing is up there with SEED and 00 in terms realism and that's because of how uber the Gundams are. I understand that there are some uber suits in UC, but they're pretty rare compared to the five or six (maybe even seven) that show up in Wing. And actually, SEED and 00 do it a bit better as you can see the suits getting messed up pretty badly whereas in Wing, it's a rare sight.

There's also the brutal realism inherent in UC that feels just a bit darker than what's presented in Wing.

E.F.S.F
January 28, 2013, 5:17 PM
Wing to me is just some fun mindless action. I watch U.C. for action, war presented realistically, and the politics.

Deathscythe!
January 28, 2013, 5:38 PM
I thought the Wing Grunts were just as weak as (Deathscythe Hell)

lol, my fault

extend
January 28, 2013, 9:11 PM
Well im not sure about UC. UC is very realistic and im not so sure if i will be interested. Since all the other gundams i have seen are unrealistic in a way. I can hold Turn A and Wing. I do want to see Wing. To tell u the truth i have already seen like 27 episodes of it but i just cant stay on it since i feel that it is too dark.

Based from my observations, U.C. tends to have fast pacing monotonous conversations. To be honest, there were times that I almost fell asleep. Maybe because most of the story telling style from 70's to 80's were done just like that, while I have gotten used to watching animes in my own time. It doesn't mean though that the story is bad. OVAs such as Stardust Memory and Unicorn has a more modern way of how the characters converse with each other.

The battle scenes are sometimes not flashy. There are lots of missed shots from both sides. It just means that both sides are giving each other a hard time. It makes you feel that battlefield is not a fun place. It makes my heart beat faster.

It's interesting that you'd describe Wing to be dark.

pinski1015
January 28, 2013, 10:35 PM
I have to say the most realistic series I've seen so far is 8th team and Wing. I watched 00 but that went on the tangent of almost magic like stuff with Trans am, the GN particles plus the innovades and innovators.

E.F.S.F
January 29, 2013, 12:31 AM
I have to say the most realistic series I've seen so far is 8th team and Wing. I watched 00 but that went on the tangent of almost magic like stuff with Trans am, the GN particles plus the innovades and innovators.

I agree about the 08th but just wondering how is Wing realistic?

Jae102
January 29, 2013, 12:44 AM
I agree about the 08th but just wondering how is Wing realistic.

Same here. Wing is so unrealistic. Season 1 of Gundam 00 was far more realistic than Wing. At least 00 technology was explained to be superior and it's not just armor. Also the Leo's are the weakest mech yet and Trieze Leo is indestructible like a Gundam from Wing.

Deathscythe!
January 29, 2013, 8:40 AM
Same here. Wing is so unrealistic. Season 1 of Gundam 00 was far more realistic than Wing. At least 00 technology was explained to be superior and it's not just armor. Also the Leo's are the weakest mech yet and Trieze Leo is indestructible like a Gundam from Wing.

Coming to think about it - you're right.

As for the Leo vs. Gundam issue : I just considered the grunts to be piloted by greenhorns. Furthermore, I likened the gundam vs. Leo example to a "rifle vs. tank" idea.

Dlinker
January 29, 2013, 12:29 PM
I have to say the most realistic series I've seen so far is 8th team and Wing. I watched 00 but that went on the tangent of almost magic like stuff with Trans am, the GN particles plus the innovades and innovators.

In a way, that kinda leads to more realism for 00 since it's explained how GN Particles are these things that can change the course of human history. Because it's still not properly understood in the series, it comes off as a nearly magical (some can say even divine) concept.

For Wing, the magical aspect comes from how unbeatable the Gundams are and that never changes throughout the series. I guess if they showed them getting a replacement parts or having serious trouble in a fight more often then it would be easier to take, but they don't. You have to take it at face value that they will dominate everything. Then there are the instances like what Jae102 mentions.

I'm not hating on Wing as it was the first Gundam series I ever watched and it holds a special place, but it's tough to consider it as a realistic series.

alphachruch
January 29, 2013, 4:43 PM
Based from my observations, U.C. tends to have fast pacing monotonous conversations. To be honest, there were times that I almost fell asleep. Maybe because most of the story telling style from 70's to 80's were done just like that, while I have gotten used to watching animes in my own time. It doesn't mean though that the story is bad. OVAs such as Stardust Memory and Unicorn has a more modern way of how the characters converse with each other.

The battle scenes are sometimes not flashy. There are lots of missed shots from both sides. It just means that both sides are giving each other a hard time. It makes you feel that battlefield is not a fun place. It makes my heart beat faster.

It's interesting that you'd describe Wing to be dark.

The fact that UC is so real that I might not like it. I have seen 10 episodes of the original gundam. I stopped watching it cuz it was old and monotony. I am willing to watch Zeta though.

Wing is dark is because of the color themes they use. Dark blue and Dark green on the Wing, Black and dark red for deathscythe, some type of dirty white for sandrock, red and dark yellow on the Chinese guy's (I forgot his name), and red and orange on Heavyarms (I really like Trowa and Heavyarms)

And Deathscythe: I know what a Newtype is. I played Gundam 3 and gone on gundam wiki to research about them. They are kinda like Coordinators except for the fact that they are skills rather than a genetic trait.

And im done with SEED now so im bored and waiting for a response. If I don't get one then ill just watch another 12 ep anime. Or maybe I should start Unicorn if I can find it online. Or Zeta. Or ill just watch SEED Destiny since im already watching Seed.

alphachruch
January 29, 2013, 4:49 PM
In a way, that kinda leads to more realism for 00 since it's explained how GN Particles are these things that can change the course of human history. Because it's still not properly understood in the series, it comes off as a nearly magical (some can say even divine) concept.

For Wing, the magical aspect comes from how unbeatable the Gundams are and that never changes throughout the series. I guess if they showed them getting a replacement parts or having serious trouble in a fight more often then it would be easier to take, but they don't. You have to take it at face value that they will dominate everything. Then there are the instances like what Jae102 mentions.

I'm not hating on Wing as it was the first Gundam series I ever watched and it holds a special place, but it's tough to consider it as a realistic series.

Oh! In Wing the gundams do get repaired. I remember when the scientists are trapped on an enemy ship along with Heero and Duo. and while they are there the gundams get repaired. I also think Wing is kinda stupid since they always have like suicidal thoughts. Heero: I'm losing! I should blow up the Gundam! I only like Trowa since he seems the most normal of the 5 pilots. And Relena was missing for a while too. I also find Treize confusing since I never understand his thoughts. Maybe its just me or maybe they aren't relayed properly enough.

Deathscythe!
January 29, 2013, 5:45 PM
Oh! In Wing the gundams do get repaired. I remember when the scientists are trapped on an enemy ship along with Heero and Duo. and while they are there the gundams get repaired. I also think Wing is kinda stupid since they always have like suicidal thoughts. Heero: I'm losing! I should blow up the Gundam! I only like Trowa since he seems the most normal of the 5 pilots. And Relena was missing for a while too. I also find Treize confusing since I never understand his thoughts. Maybe its just me or maybe they aren't relayed properly enough.

Relaying characters is Wing's biggest problems. It doesn't depict it at all. Sometimes, some characters appearance can be scheeming.

I'll clarify a few things to you :

Wufei : Hardly do the viewing grasp his intentions, conceptions etc.
However, everything Wufei seeks is a peaceful world and he wants to defeat others in order to confirm for himself that HE IS worthy being the strongest. He's what you consider an aspiring character.
Additonally, Wufei always has noble causes. He wishes to understand both sides. He tends to eradicate every form of war for people to live tranquilly.
On the other hand, Wufei is ambitious to become the strongest. As I've already stated somewhere, he'D like to confirm for himself that he's the strongest by vanquishing the stronger (like Treize, Zechs etc.)
Do you know why ? His fianceť is said to have died, fighting against OZ in order to protect a colony (if I recall properly.)
Resultingly, Wufei accuses himself of being too weak to guard the others.
Nontheless, WUFEI is NOT INCLINED to commit suicide. He values his suit, regarding it as the embodiment (or rather representing symbol) of his fiancee. Yup.

I doubt that everyone's ascertained this.

Duo : The saddest of all characters. He's the sole survivor of his orphanery.
First of all : Duo originates from an idea "Duo" had when he first met a person he looked up to. The admired person went by the name "solo".
Similarly to Wufei, Duo fights the evil/harming on his own.
Duo is depressed. Many/all of his cherished friends (I'm getting at his childhood) have died by the time he pilots the D-Scythe.
Regardless of all those aspects, Duo possesses a metnally strong character.
His mood, I assume, is just a distinctive trait of his. He's always cheerful and happy.

The Deathscythe is one of the most destructible Gundams. It's provided with little armor.

Trowa : We don't know much about him. He escapes from his family and begins working at the circus. He accepts the name Trowa Barton.
He conceals his emotions. Trowa is believed to be one of the most emotional characters.

He acknowledges himself a tool employed to attain peace (or to follow orders instead.)
IMO, he should learn to appreciate life a little more.

Quatre : A misfit, compared to the other pilots. He doesn't have any psychic problems. Except for the fact that he's unable to bear many things.
If depressed and upset, he goes like : "OMG, let's devastate the sh** out of this colony. You're gonna die"

Heero : His character is similar to trowas. Watch Gundam Wing. The Zero fixes it all.

NOTE : Everything emphasised by the Zero system highly refers to each one's character.


Treize : Desires for a world where sincere fighting prevails. No running away, no cheats. Fight like a man.

Zechs : He's a mentally messed up char clone.

Relena : I've got a folder filled with Relena pics. Ah, yeah, before I forget : She is what is labelled a foolishly idealistic person.

alphachruch
January 29, 2013, 8:34 PM
I have another complait, about Duo.

You say that deathscythe is the most destructive and I agree. But Duo never shows it. I feel like he always fails in it.

What do you have to say about that?

pinski1015
January 29, 2013, 10:03 PM
In a way, that kinda leads to more realism for 00 since it's explained how GN Particles are these things that can change the course of human history. Because it's still not properly understood in the series, it comes off as a nearly magical (some can say even divine) concept.

For Wing, the magical aspect comes from how unbeatable the Gundams are and that never changes throughout the series. I guess if they showed them getting a replacement parts or having serious trouble in a fight more often then it would be easier to take, but they don't. You have to take it at face value that they will dominate everything. Then there are the instances like what Jae102 mentions.

I'm not hating on Wing as it was the first Gundam series I ever watched and it holds a special place, but it's tough to consider it as a realistic series.


00 just went too far with it. I mean communicating telepathically, Setsuna using goku's instant transmission to dodge attacks.

I think in wing though the gundam's were invincible up until the taurus's. Shenlong and deathsythe were both wrecked by them.

Dlinker
January 30, 2013, 12:54 AM
00 just went too far with it. I mean communicating telepathically, Setsuna using goku's instant transmission to dodge attacks.

I think in wing though the gundam's were invincible up until the taurus's. Shenlong and deathsythe were both wrecked by them.

Oh yeah, 00 has plenty of WTF moments that are more in line with a fantasy series, but there's still overall more suffering happening for the good guys than what Wing showed. I agree that there were one or two, maybe three, suits that got messed up in Wing, but it was more or less downplayed because they quickly get back into action even better than before.

I guess my dissatisfaction with the realism aspect in Wing is how the series showed how dominant the good guys were. Compared to the newer series like SEED and 00, they just didn't balance the ratio of the good guys suffering vs. the good guys winning. Despite that fact, that's actually what got me attracted to the series in the first place, haha. Big robots destroying the crap out of everything in front of them.

Deathscythe!
January 30, 2013, 1:54 PM
I have another complait, about Duo.

You say that deathscythe is the most destructive and I agree. But Duo never shows it. I feel like he always fails in it.

What do you have to say about that?

lol oops. I meant to state, the D-Scythe was the MOST Destructible Gundam

alphachruch
January 30, 2013, 5:33 PM
Ok its decided, im watching SEEd destiny, i really want to see how Mwu comes back. I already know that he does.

And i am dissappointed with SEED mode. Unlike trans-am where the difference is big and noticable, Kira fails and i saw no big difference.

Dlinker
January 30, 2013, 6:52 PM
Haha, you and me both then. I was also expecting more results when the characters go into SEED mode, but alas, the results are present only in the early episodes. I'm not seeing Kira's "I Win" button in SEED either. But then, I guess that depends on the definition. I expected him to kick everyone's ass once he got the Freedom. Instead, he doesn't really do any significant ass kicking until the last few episodes.

alphachruch
January 30, 2013, 7:17 PM
No not even in the last episodes. The meteor pack is where the cool stuff happened but the SEED mode wasnt present or strong. And against Rau le Cruset he was losing until he raged after Fllay died. and that reaction was still not as well as i expected it to be. His win against le Cruset was kinda cheap. le Cruset kinda gave him the kill, he did something and Kira took that advantage and went straight for the cockpit (against all of his previous ideas on not killing people, but it was probably for the better that he did kill him).

Jae102
January 30, 2013, 11:43 PM
No not even in the last episodes. The meteor pack is where the cool stuff happened but the SEED mode wasnt present or strong. And against Rau le Cruset he was losing until he raged after Fllay died. and that reaction was still not as well as i expected it to be. His win against le Cruset was kinda cheap. le Cruset kinda gave him the kill, he did something and Kira took that advantage and went straight for the cockpit (against all of his previous ideas on not killing people, but it was probably for the better that he did kill him).

Kira gets mad and has the desire to kill just like every other Gundam character just like he killed Stella. He's a hypocrite who preach's peace while he's still fighting. Reason I respect Banagher more than Kira and even Kio. At least they don't have rehashed scenes.

alphachruch
January 31, 2013, 12:08 AM
Kio on the other hand was a total noob. His AGE-3 and his enhanced X-rounder powers jus made it seem too cheap. He was way stronger than Flit even though they are supposed to be around the same level of X-Rounder strength. Asemu is better than him, I actually respect asemu since he trained to get his x-rounder like skills.

E.F.S.F
January 31, 2013, 2:00 AM
I miss Toonami.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioiAzNiPlpU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4x0hhJ1BBQ

E.F.S.F
January 31, 2013, 2:00 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHORiWcYzEY

Dlinker
January 31, 2013, 2:05 AM
Seeing those clips of 08th MS Team reinforces my belief that SEED and SEED Destiny are the angsty teenagers of the Gundam franchise. They think they know what they finally want, but when the shit hits the fan, they let their emotions get the better of them and all maturity gets replaced with savagery.

Kenico
January 31, 2013, 2:08 AM
Good news Friend...they brought it back on Adult Swim. its not exactly the same but its good enough lol

alphachruch
January 31, 2013, 7:08 AM
On adult swim? Bit gundam used to run on cartoon network. What is so bad that it needs to run on adult swim?

Kenico
January 31, 2013, 7:26 AM
What? No, what i mean is that they brought The Toonami Block Back as of last year on Adult Swim...compliment of what was at first an April Fools Prank...but alot of people took it seriously (including yours truly...and believe me, i went Nuts when i saw it...took me three months to fix the holes in my walls from where my feet landed after bouncing off of them)...a few months later, some fan demands and BOOM! Toonamis Back Bitches* lol...As for SEED and Destiny sadly they were on Toonami before it got what i like to call "put on hiatus" in 08. They were on probably between 03 and 05 (dont hold me to that fellas)

*Riche Brandson Ref.

Deathscythe!
January 31, 2013, 9:11 AM
On adult swim? Bit gundam used to run on cartoon network. What is so bad that it needs to run on adult swim?

If you're referring to violence or something not suitable for children to watch, I have to say that some Gundam series (mostly 08th MS and 0083) are only made for adults.
If you don't understand what I mean to say, feel free to ask. I don't want to spoil anything for you

Dlinker
January 31, 2013, 12:59 PM
Is it bad to say that I would prefer watching them online instead?

pinski1015
January 31, 2013, 1:26 PM
0080 and Char's counterattack were also on adult swim

E.F.S.F
January 31, 2013, 1:46 PM
What? No, what i mean is that they brought The Toonami Block Back as of last year on Adult Swim...compliment of what was at first an April Fools Prank...but alot of people took it seriously (including yours truly...and believe me, i went Nuts when i saw it...took me three months to fix the holes in my walls from where my feet landed after bouncing off of them)...a few months later, some fan demands and BOOM! Toonamis Back Bitches* lol...As for SEED and Destiny sadly they were on Toonami before it got what i like to call "put on hiatus" in 08. They were on probably between 03 and 05 (dont hold me to that fellas)

*Riche Brandson Ref.

So what you are saying is that Seed killed Toonami. Looks C.E. Strikes again in kiling in what I hold dear. :)

alphachruch
January 31, 2013, 5:22 PM
Wow. SEED was so bad that my favorite childhood toonami was taken off air?
Where was 00 during this? 00 would have been a better telecast.
I just watch gundam on Pinoyanime.tv or Animeboy.com or Crunchyroll.com

Jae102
January 31, 2013, 5:48 PM
Is it bad to say that I would prefer watching them online instead?

Same here can't stand comercials. Watch when I want to watch and can watch at my own pace especially if you connect you pc to tv.

Dlinker
January 31, 2013, 6:57 PM
Same here can't stand comercials. Watch when I want to watch and can watch at my own pace especially if you connect you pc to tv.

My point exactly. It's fine for some shows that are hard to find online, but if you can find it online, that's how I'd watch them. Having no commercials is a huge blessing. Damn things rot my brain, no matter what show I'm watching on cable TV.

@alphachruch, I'm not entirely sure if SEED and SEED Destiny alone are what caused Toonami to be taken off air, haha. Unless there is some kind of official statement about it.

Kenico
February 1, 2013, 4:03 AM
Double FACEPALM. NO! LOL it was tanked in 08 long after SEED and Destiny were Aired...It was put on hiatus cause of other circumstances Some that I dont know about but eventually the Highter ups came to thier senses and brought it back.

alphachruch
March 2, 2013, 10:58 PM
I guess the thread died again...
So now i shall reactivate it. My friend (WingZer0) really thinks 00 or QanT can beat Turn A.
I showed him this thread and he lost.
So would Dark Gundam beat Turn A?
And who is the only possible match for Turn A (other than Turn X)?

RuinedExia18
March 3, 2013, 12:36 AM
All Gundam except original = Not favorite.

Dlinker
March 3, 2013, 12:48 AM
I guess the thread died again...
So now i shall reactivate it. My friend (WingZer0) really thinks 00 or QanT can beat Turn A.
I showed him this thread and he lost.
So would Dark Gundam beat Turn A?
And who is the only possible match for Turn A (other than Turn X)?

Haha, people aren't too argumentative here, it seems. As for your question, I believe Turn A will beat the Dark Gundam. Teleport a beam shot to the core and game over. The only possible match I can think of, aside from Turn X, is....maybe a mecha/machine from a different universe. I really can't see any other Gundam or mobile suit more powerful than the Turn A.

swark34
March 3, 2013, 1:49 AM
I guess the thread died again...
So now i shall reactivate it. My friend (WingZer0) really thinks 00 or QanT can beat Turn A.
I showed him this thread and he lost.
So would Dark Gundam beat Turn A?
And who is the only possible match for Turn A (other than Turn X)?

I think Dark Gundam would make it interesting but in the end Turn A wins

Deathscythe!
March 3, 2013, 5:18 AM
Turn A can annihilate technology in a range as wide as the distance between the Earth and Jupiter.
Dark Gundam doesn't stand a chance.

As for the match betwen Turn A Gundam and the Turn X, it all depends on each pilot's skills.

extend
March 3, 2013, 7:04 AM
Haha, people aren't too argumentative here, it seems. As for your question, I believe Turn A will beat the Dark Gundam. Teleport a beam shot to the core and game over. The only possible match I can think of, aside from Turn X, is....maybe a mecha/machine from a different universe. I really can't see any other Gundam or mobile suit more powerful than the Turn A.

Different mecha/machine from a different universe? I'd like to see Jehuty ver. 2.0 or Anubis versus Turn A.

Jehuty and Anubis are said to be equal in terms of power which is powerful enough to destroy the whole solar system. Both are fast enough due to Zero Shift, and both have very good close-range, mid-range, and long-range attacks. With a skilled pilot and strategy, those Metatron powered orbital frames, Jehuty or Anubis, can take down on Turn A or Turn X.

Dlinker
March 3, 2013, 3:28 PM
@extend,

Make it Naked Jehuty with limitless Metatron reserves and you got a good match. Even the teleporting beam shots won't be game-enders since Jehuty will move too fast and too often.

Aside from mecha from super robot shows (which shouldn't be counted since they're more fantastical than realistic), that might be the best opponent out there for the Turn A.

extend
March 3, 2013, 9:40 PM
@extend,

Make it Naked Jehuty with limitless Metatron reserves and you got a good match. Even the teleporting beam shots won't be game-enders since Jehuty will move too fast and too often.

Aside from mecha from super robot shows (which shouldn't be counted since they're more fantastical than realistic), that might be the best opponent out there for the Turn A.

I think Jehuty ver. 2.0 is enough. It is said that the ver. 2.0 is already equal to Anubis in terms of fighting ability and strength. Naked Jehuty is as fast as Jehuty ver. 2.0. Both can use Zero-Shift infinitely. I just think that Naked Jehuty is too overpowered. It can destroy a big mobile-armor like orbital frame in a single shot.

Dlinker
March 3, 2013, 10:43 PM
Haha, I see what you mean. Turn A is powerful, but it's not stupidly powerful and matching it against Naked Jehuty would be an unfair battle.

I wonder if anything from the Macross universe would be a good match against the Turn A. Supposedly, when you look at the numbers behind the more powerful Vakyries (like the VF-27 Brera Sterne Custom), they almost have supernatural combat ability.

extend
March 5, 2013, 12:41 PM
Haha, I see what you mean. Turn A is powerful, but it's not stupidly powerful and matching it against Naked Jehuty would be an unfair battle.

I wonder if anything from the Macross universe would be a good match against the Turn A. Supposedly, when you look at the numbers behind the more powerful Vakyries (like the VF-27 Brera Sterne Custom), they almost have supernatural combat ability.

Speed is the first thing that comes into my mind when it comes to Macross. The main strategy is to overwhelm Turn A/X with speed even before deploying MLB. However, will the firepower be enough?

Dlinker
March 5, 2013, 2:02 PM
Hmmm, it could be. Anything that's a VF-27 and above have better weapons that are designed for mass engagement, not to mention being able to outfit the Armored Pack that can provide even more weapons and armor. Then add in the use of reactive munitions (one of the most destructive in the Macross universe) and you have the potential for overwhelming firepower.

I'm not sure how the Turn A can handle thousands of missiles going towards it at every possible angle as well as the Valkyrie itself strafing it with the gun pod (with a high rate of fire) at ridiculous speed.

As for whether that's enough to damage the Turn A, I'm not sure.

extend
March 5, 2013, 8:51 PM
Hmmm, it could be. Anything that's a VF-27 and above have better weapons that are designed for mass engagement, not to mention being able to outfit the Armored Pack that can provide even more weapons and armor. Then add in the use of reactive munitions (one of the most destructive in the Macross universe) and you have the potential for overwhelming firepower.

I'm not sure how the Turn A can handle thousands of missiles going towards it at every possible angle as well as the Valkyrie itself strafing it with the gun pod (with a high rate of fire) at ridiculous speed.

As for whether that's enough to damage the Turn A, I'm not sure.

Ah, the VF-27... Now we're talking...
How about the pinpoint barrier punch by YF-19 and YF-21? I love those two variable fighters. They are fast enough to get in close range.

katamuro
March 5, 2013, 8:58 PM
Valkyries from Macross and Gundams are two totally different ways of thought about mecha. It is a weapon. VF's evolved out of fighters so they are fuly flight capable, agile and their firepower is a compromise between weight and efficiency against the same type of machine, their armour is also designed to work against the same class of enemy machines. Reaction weaponry is basically nuclear weapons. Gundams on the other hand were developed to be highly mobile tanks, high firepower, lot of armour.

But to properly compare such machines we have to compare the ones that are the most similar, which to me is VF-1 and Rx-78. It is true that Valkyrie carriers many missiles but they have to strike in the vulnerable places multiple times to be effective. On the other hand Gundam only needs one shot from its beam rifle. But if its an unexpected attack from the air it is possible for VF to defeat a Gundam, however considering the gundam sensors were meant to penetrate Minovsky particle jamming without them they will be much more effective. Allowing Gundam to shoot down a VF with its beam rifle.

But in the end it depends on the pilot, if both pilots are good and know each others weaknesses then the outcome could be 50/50. As long as it doesnt get into melee, Gundam wins there every time with its beam saber.

Dlinker
March 5, 2013, 11:47 PM
Ah, the VF-27... Now we're talking...
How about the pinpoint barrier punch by YF-19 and YF-21? I love those two variable fighters. They are fast enough to get in close range.

I remember that scene from Macross Plus...good times, man. I also have a fondness for the YF-19/VF-19. I have the Yamato 1/60 VF-19 Diamond Force toy and it's one of my favorites on my shelf :) I like me some VF-22 as well; too bad it doesn't get much love by the fans.

@Katamuro, wouldn't the speed and agility of a Valkryrie in flight mode pose a problem for a Gundam? You're right about melee, though; Valkyries weren't meant to fight at close range. It's more of a last-resort capability for them. True for the missiles as well, although a Valkyrie pilot doesn't rely on those alone. They often use them as a distraction so they can get in close to use the gun pod.

Lastly, the final truth: Gundams and Valkyries really are different mecha philosophies. I don't know about you guys, but we can argue this until the end of time and still won't have a clear winner.

katamuro
March 6, 2013, 11:30 AM
Exactly, there is just way too much difference between them to actually compare them, they are after all made for different purposes. both could win in different situations.

As for gunpod it is a conventional 55mm 3-barrel gatling. You know about the same as 60mm dual vulcans in gundams head. It wont have enough power to penetrate the armour. After all Zaku II has a 120mm machine gun and that is just barely enough.

Dlinker
March 6, 2013, 12:33 PM
Oh, I was referring to the gun pod of the newer/experimental Valkyries (VF-27, VF-171EX Nightmare Plus, YF-29, possibly the YF-30 also), which I believe are beam gun pods.

katamuro
March 7, 2013, 10:49 AM
the VF-27 has a beam gun but again it is a gunpod sized beam gun, it is a machine gun its power is shifted towards rate of fire than firepower. Gundam beam guns as we know have quite limited ammunition because they are based on ship mounted beam cannons. They were developed to be one hit-one kill weapon. I compared the VF-1 and RX-78 because they were both set the tone to later evolutions. If we compare how many years have passed and compare the machines then we will see that same applies.

Also if the combat happened in space, and we use a gundam adapted to full space mobility I believe because Gundams were made with heavier armour it would win, as while a Valkyrie has to concentrate its fire even if it is with a beam gun, a gundams superior armour would leave enough time to deploy its superior firepower. Note here that I am talking just about UC gundams. If we compared Valkyries to AD gundams they would not stand a chance.

Dlinker
March 7, 2013, 11:57 AM
Hmmm, one on one, that's true, especially when you consider we haven't really seen any proof on how well a Valkyrie's weapons will do against a heavily-armored target. As you said before, they're for fighting an enemy that have relatively similar capabilities and equipment (meaning nothing too heavily armored). Although it still begs the question about how well a Valkyrie's beam weapon will work on said heavily-armored target (the VF-171EX has a quantum beam gun loadout it can equip, the YF-29 has that coaxial dual-beam turret on its back, and the VF-27 has the beam grenade mode for its gun pod). Then add in the fact that nearly every single portrayal of a Valkyrie involves it being in a large battle with multiples friendlies on its side and it becomes even more apparent that it wasn't designed to be a one-and-nothing-else weapon.

It all comes back to the different design philosophies again. A Valkyrie was more or less a grunt while a Gundam isn't. Grunt vs grunt, I believe a Valkyrie can win due to superior speed and agility. Yes, firepower will still be greater on a grunt mobile suit, but it won't be a big advantage against a Valkyrie that can move and shoot faster and will likely have add-on packs to help it fight against armored targets (when is a Valkyrie of any kind not have something strapped to it to make it better for a given situation?).

Also, let's not bring in the AD gundams; even in the Gundam universe, those are considered overpowered and unrealistic :)

katamuro
March 7, 2013, 1:13 PM
Not as overpowered as Turn A. But still even among grunt mobile suits if both contestants are chosen with similar abilities then I still believe it will end up in either a stalemate or down to luck. i believe they are both evenly matched.

Dlinker
March 7, 2013, 2:18 PM
Yeah, nothing is as overpowered as the Turn A, but it's tougher to gauge how AD suits behave in a realistic situation due to how inconsistent their portrayals are in the anime. One minute they're getting beat up, the next minute they're wiping out everything with firepower that was somehow completely absent earlier.

You're right, it can depend on the pilot. A lucky shot from a grunt mobile suit can end a Valkyrie flown by a careless pilot quickly. A good Valkyrie pilot can destroy even a full-on Gundam, if said Gundam is piloted by a rookie.

In the end, we still don't know if the best that the Macross universe can offer can beat the Turn A, haha.

katamuro
March 7, 2013, 3:53 PM
Well the pilot does not have to be careless to get shot. Because of the transformation mechanism Valkyries are far more fragile. Their airframe is light to fly and made for long to medium range combat. With 60mm vulcans or even Zaku II 120mm machine gun a shot in legs or body would disable the Valkyrie robbing most of its advantages in combat. And we have seen how easy is to damage a Valkyrie when they crash into buildings. Mobile suits on the other hand are far sturdier, we have seen them continue to fight with lot more damage than Vakyrie. Their laser cannons and beam guns are meant mostly for combat against their own class of fighter. Even then we see that they take multiple hits before damage is serious.
Considering that the weakest mobile suit weapon is same calibre as the standard on Valkyries, it is clear that for any real damage Valkyrie has to have at least a few very good hits. As for mobile suits, their armour would enable them to survive long enough against a Valkyrie to bring their superior weapons to bear and destroy or seriously damage the Valkyrie. Unless multiple Valkyries attack a single mobile suit they will both come out of the fight in similar condition.
A mobile suit squad would destroy a Valkyrie squadron in space. In gravity Valkyries would probably win as they have far greater mobility in the air, but they would sustain very heavy losses. However if Valkyries go in for a close combat they will be destroyed even if a mobile suits punches them.

alphachruch
March 7, 2013, 4:48 PM
lol. A very serious conversation you guys are having, are u guys even talking about Gundam?

Deathscythe!
March 7, 2013, 4:59 PM
lol. A very serious conversation you guys are having, are u guys even talking about Gundam?

I've been wondering about that as well.

Dlinker
March 7, 2013, 5:38 PM
This is all assuming the Valkyrie gets a standard loadout, which is never the case if it knows it's fighting a stronger opponent.

Yes, they're more fragile, but considering how they move three or four times faster and are more agile/maneuverable than most mobile suits (even faster with add-on packs), it's not much of a disadvantage. I believe mobile suits rely on line-of-sight to shoot and if you can't get that, then superior firepower will be negated. Yes, a mobile suit can predict where the shot will go with advanced targeting computers, but that's assuming a Valkyrie that's flying steadily and not making very sudden changes of direction. This is just for a grunt Valkyrie too; aren't unique mobile suits the only ones who can come close to matching their speed and agility?

Also, sturdiness doesn't mean much when it hampers your ability to aim with line-of-sight. A mobile suit missing a leg, arm, head, or even some fingers means it won't have the same offense as before and that means an easier time for a Valkyrie to pepper it with missiles/gun pod. When you fight against something that small and fast, every little bit counts for or against you.

And yes, the basic armaments on a Valkyrie aren't much, hence the need for add-on packs. Again, design philosophy because a Valkyrie is meant to be very adaptable depending on the enemy. I know I said Valkyrie pilots often use missiles as a distraction, but some do use them as their primary weapon. Yes, Minovsky particles can disrupt radar lock, but that's assuming normal radar lock. I believe Valkyries started using fold communications for everything once Space War I was underway, including weapons guidance and that means it won't affect how the missiles can seek a target. I think they also use other means for guidance as well to combat the advanced ECM of the Zentradi. Loaded with Reactive missiles or even just AP missiles, which move pretty darn fast considering they're designed to hit something faster than a Valkyrie, a missile swarm becomes a serious threat. Wouldn't a mobile suit have problems shooting at or dodging ultra-fast, tiny missiles that can come from any angle, even behind them? Even if it does, we all know Valkyries fire missile swarms just as often as they fire the gun pod. The beam guns/cannons on a Valkyrie are just icing on the cake and really depend on the pilot, but it kinda sucks that they aren't really that impressive.

As for a space battle, Valkyries with FAST packs are the solution for making them suitable for space. Gives them more speed, adapts their agility for a zero gravity environment, gives more ammo (and weapons depending on the pilot), and gives a slight increase in armor. Only downside is weight so it has to be ejected before entering the atmosphere. Should be the same situation as in gravity, although the mobile suit might have more trouble since it doesn't have as much cover to rely on. I don't doubt there will be losses, but it will be far from complete defeat. I agree with close combat, though. A Valkyrie simply wasn't designed for that.

@alphachruch, Deathscythe!, we are indeed talking about Gundam, but it has strayed from the original question of what's better than the Turn A. Now, it's about Macross Valkyries vs Gundam mobile suit (grunt type).

katamuro
March 7, 2013, 8:14 PM
Yes you are right about the FAST packs I forgot about them, I was only comparing the most basic load-out. However missiles swarms considering the size of the missiles should be of no consequence to the mobile suit. Its armour will take the punishment without serious damage. And lets disregard Minovksy particle jamming, mobile suits are unable to use it only ships and other larger units. Also Valkyries are not equipped with fold communication as that would require a fold engine. Which is shows as a fold booster in Frontier allowing individual Valkyries to use fold travel, however that was still a prototype so that would mean all Valkyries up to Frontier use normal radar lock same as mobile suits.
And yes using a heavy anti-armour missile load-out they would be able to destroy a mobile suit. However mobile suits are equipped with head/chest/shoulder vulcans for the purpose of shooting down missiles. it wont be able to track all or shoot down all, but it should be able to shoot down enough and evade some.
Considering the amount of years between VF-1 and VF-25 I would compare it to RGM-122 Javelin, which has a beam shield technology and Gundarium alloy armour. I am saying they both have equal chances of destroying each other considering that while VF-25 lacks in armour it makes up in speed and agility and RGM-122 having far greater armour and beam firepower lacks the speed and agility. It all depends on the pilots. However Valkyries cant get into a prolonged fight as if its missiles are spent it loses a lot of its firepower and needs to rely on the gunpod and built in 25mm beam guns which considering mobile suit was developed to withstand far greater firepower would make them innefective.

The whole fight would depend on the first strike, if VF-25S Super Messiah can get enough of its missiles past then it would win, however if RGM-122 Javelin withstands those missile attacks it simply needs to land a single hit from its beam rifle or several from its head mounted vulcans.

extend
March 7, 2013, 9:39 PM
So this would mean that the chances are 50/50?

Dlinker
March 7, 2013, 9:48 PM
Hmmm, still disagree about the missiles simply because they've been used to take out a Queadluun-Rau, which is the closest thing to a mobile suit in Macross in terms of size and armor. A single volley isn't effective, but that's why they use multiple volleys. This makes it even more difficult for a mobile suit to shoot down the missiles.

You're right, fold guidance belonged to the VF-25 and above only. That still leaves visual and heat tracking, which is still more than enough to hit a mobile suit. The effective range of the missiles is pretty long too, long enough that a Valkyrie can stay out of the range of a mobile suit and still hit it. And yes, Valkyries weren't meant for battles of attrition and are known to need reloading often so that is a big downside to them.

All in all, I agree that the pilots make all the difference. Like I said before, a rookie in a mobile suit would be toast against a good Valkyrie pilot while a rookie Valkyrie pilot would be toast against a good mobile suit pilot. It's about making use of your strengths and minimizing weaknesses. I'll bring this back to Gundam and give a good example: Char in his Zaku vs Amuro in the Gundam. Char gave him fits for some time despite being in a mobile suit that was practically outdated against the armor and firepower of the RX-78-2. Why? Because he was the better pilot who kept himself mobile and used every advantage he can get.

@extend, yep, I'd say it is 50/50. Same goes for the Turn A against something like the VF-27 (with Brera as the pilot).

katamuro
March 8, 2013, 10:06 AM
I agree about Turn A and VF-27 with Brera. His far superior reflexes and ability to withstand much higher g-forces would overpower the Turn A. Unless it uses that ability. But it was meant to be overpowered.

Dlinker
March 8, 2013, 12:54 PM
That's right, which is why there is only one VF-27 and one Brera, haha. Unique Valkyries and pilots are pretty rare so when they are available, they are usually overpowered. Well...maybe this applies to the VF-27 only.

All of the earlier unique Valkyrie pilots worked in groups and weren't solo like Brera. Dude took on stuff that Skull Squadron itself had trouble fighting.

katamuro
March 8, 2013, 11:42 PM
Well considering he is a cyborg with a crazy prototype fighter with beam main gun. It is to be expected. I have actually a hole in my Macross universe. I have seen everything apart from Macross 7 and its derivatives. So I dont know much about the Valkyries from that period of time. The closest we get in gundam universe to pilot who would bear the kind of punishment Brera did is Heero Yuy. That guy is just plain human but his focus is by far greater.

Dlinker
March 9, 2013, 1:56 AM
You and me both. I have only seen a scattering of episodes from Macross 7, but enough to cement that the VF-17, VF-22, and VF-19 were ass-kicking Valkyries (the VF-17 more so since it became the official grunt in Macross Frontier). Then you have the main character Basara's custom VF-19 that looks it belongs to a super robot show. What's his weapon? His music, and the freakin' Valkyrie is piloted by his guitar. It sounds stupid, but it's the awesome kind of stupid. Of course, there was a purpose to it all (advanced psych warfare).

If you've seen Macross Plus, then you have a good idea on how the VF-19 and 22 perform.

And I agree, Heero Yuy and probably Zechs/Milliardo are the only ones we've seen in Gundam who can take the punishment of incredible G forces. I haven't seen any other Gundam pilot worrying about that kind of thing (well, maybe Amuro during that one episode in MSG).

extend
March 10, 2013, 6:57 PM
You and me both. I have only seen a scattering of episodes from Macross 7, but enough to cement that the VF-17, VF-22, and VF-19 were ass-kicking Valkyries (the VF-17 more so since it became the official grunt in Macross Frontier). Then you have the main character Basara's custom VF-19 that looks it belongs to a super robot show. What's his weapon? His music, and the freakin' Valkyrie is piloted by his guitar. It sounds stupid, but it's the awesome kind of stupid. Of course, there was a purpose to it all (advanced psych warfare).

Oh my God. Now that you mentioned it, I just love Basara! He was so bad ass! There was an episode, IIRC, where he shot his speaker missiles into the ship of those female Zentradi (Meltrandi?), and all of these giant women were like watching a rock concert, blushing over Basara, and fired their guns "up in the air" (space) hitting no one. The Macross also aimed their main gun upward as if the Macross itself is joining the party! That episode was damned hell funny!

Speaking of G-Forces, how about Graham Aker?

Dlinker
March 10, 2013, 7:29 PM
Oh my God. Now that you mentioned it, I just love Basara! He was so bad ass! There was an episode, IIRC, where he shot his speaker missiles into the ship of those female Zentradi (Meltrandi?), and all of these giant women were like watching a rock concert, blushing over Basara, and fired their guns "up in the air" (space) hitting no one. The Macross also aimed their main gun upward as if the Macross itself is joining the party! That episode was damned hell funny!

Speaking of G-Forces, how about Graham Aker?

My good man, that episode is one of the legendary examples of the essence of Macross. Music, mecha, large-scale battles, and circular explosions. But more emphasis on music :) And yep, those are the Meltrandi. Vicious women, but boy are they sexy, haha.

I feel bad for forgetting about Graham Aker, seriously. You're absolutely right; he carries that mantle for the modern generation now. Unlike Heero or Zechs/Milliardo, this dude embraces it willingly as if it was an essential drug, all for the ultimate honor and nothing else.

alphachruch
March 10, 2013, 10:26 PM
What if a transformer attacked Turn A? Optimus Prime could stab Turn A's cockpit before it had the chance to react. Plus transformers are robot controlled so...

Dlinker
March 10, 2013, 11:42 PM
Hmmm, very good question. I thought about this before too, but hesitated to suggest it because there are so many continuities in the Transformers universe. If we were to match up the Turn A with a Cybertronian (which is what a Transformer really is called, haha), we'd have to establish a continuity from where it would come from. Just so it can be a fair fight for the Turn A.

Believe it or not, Cybertronians can be pretty overpowered. One particular continuity (forgot which) had Galvatron using his cannon to annihilate an entire planet. Granted, he's practically a super robot since he's always important to the plot, but still.

extend
March 11, 2013, 10:16 AM
Hmmm I was too young to remember and understand Transformers. I haven't got the chance to rewatch it now so I can't say much.

Dlinker
March 11, 2013, 12:33 PM
Same here. I got back into them two years ago when I realized I now had money to buy the toys that I've always wanted, but never could have as a child. I was surprised at how many interpretations of the characters and concepts there are. Fans have a saying, "It all depends on the writer", haha.

katamuro
March 11, 2013, 9:33 PM
Lets not get into transformers. It is quite different from both gundam and macross universes. Both gundam and macross were intended as more realistic portrayal of mecha and technology. Transformers are just something totally different, they are sentient first of all making them cybernetic lifeforms than mecha and second they are actually aliens.

Dlinker
March 11, 2013, 11:54 PM
That's true, it already puts them at a huge advantage. I guess that cements the conclusion of the Turn A being the be-all-end-all of everything Gundam. Nothing out there in a similar portrayal can truly best it; the most you can hope for is a 50/50 fight.

extend
March 12, 2013, 1:18 AM
Can it be said that Turn A is conveniently powerful?

Dlinker
March 12, 2013, 1:38 AM
That's a proper way to put it. It's overpowered, but only on certain conditions and against certain opponents.

alphachruch
March 12, 2013, 5:37 PM
then we can come to the ultimate conclusion that Turn A is the most powerful human made and human operated machine. Agreed?

Deathscythe!
March 12, 2013, 5:47 PM
then we can come to the ultimate conclusion that Turn A is the most powerful human made and human operated machine. Agreed?

In terms of Gundams and "robots" with a similar extent of strength, yes.

Dlinker
March 12, 2013, 6:33 PM
then we can come to the ultimate conclusion that Turn A is the most powerful human made and human operated machine. Agreed?

Agreed. A true one-and-only machine.

katamuro
March 12, 2013, 10:22 PM
Its only the Turn A special attack that overpowers everything else. After all it is supposed to be made for interstellar warfare and it was made sometime in 3000 year period after UC0100. And it is powered by a black hole.

Yeah it is ridiculously overpowered.

alphachruch
March 12, 2013, 11:01 PM
Unless they make a gundam that harnesses the power of Black Holes. But then big tears in the space fabric would appear and it would be total chaos. I hope humans are smart enough not to do that, but hey! Einstein made the Atomic Bomb (as an experiment).

Next debate topic:
Grunts are great and all. But which grunt is your favorite in terms of power, mobility, and style. I like the Teiren Space Type from HRL in 00 and I like the Astrays as well.

extend
March 12, 2013, 11:33 PM
I like the GN-X series. They gave the Celestial Being a hard time. I also like the Tauruses from Gundam Wing. They are fast and have the firepower to fight against the Gundams. It was a Taurus who shot Deathscythe's arms.

Dlinker
March 13, 2013, 12:54 AM
Overall, the Jegan and Jesta are my favorites. They look and feel like grunts, and they pack weapons like grunts. They're followed up by the Strike Dagger and Geara Zulu. I love the slim, simple design of the Strike Dagger, while the Geara Zulu looks like the perfect shock trooper.

katamuro
March 13, 2013, 5:36 AM
You could probably guess which one is my favourite. But apart from that Jegan and GNX are my other choices.

Dlinker
March 13, 2013, 10:56 AM
You could probably guess which one is my favourite. But apart from that Jegan and GNX are my other choices.

Is it just the Zaku in general or a specific type of Zaku?

RuinedExia18
March 13, 2013, 11:08 AM
For grunts; it's the Zaku. No, I'm not talking about the Universal Century pawn, I'm talking Zaku Warrior/Phantom. This beast is beautiful. Having several forms and each fitting a certain situation? Amazing. Also, the existence of ace pilot units for it. It can be modded and upgraded for ace pilots without a problem.
I'm not quite sure if the Gouf is a grunt suit. The Gouf series is my favorite Mobile suit type ever. Gouf and Gouf custom are amazing. Gouf ignited is favorite.

alphachruch
March 13, 2013, 10:25 PM
You could probably guess which one is my favourite. But apart from that Jegan and GNX are my other choices.

Im gonna guess that you like the Normal Zaku II, not all the extra stuff like the Ground War edition or the Commander Zaku II.

katamuro
April 16, 2013, 6:33 PM
Yup just a standard MS-06F Zaku II or F2 variant.

alphachruch
April 23, 2013, 7:41 PM
Ok time to rejuvenate this thread again...
Which one of the Astrays are better?
I personally like the Astray Red Frame Kai since im a sucker for katanas. And well, it just seems more effective to have 2 big swords and a big triangle on your back and transforms to a bow.

extend
April 28, 2013, 12:13 PM
I favor Red Frame as well. Red is my favorite color.

Deathscythe!
April 28, 2013, 5:01 PM
I'm literally out of time, so I'm trying to be as laconic as possible.

You see, the RF is rather like this :

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8480/8211141892_8f0f2c0360_o.jpg

whereas the BF is more like this :

http://www.wallpele.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/New-Audi-R8-Desktop-HD-Wallpaper.jpg