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swark34
August 15, 2012, 1:41 AM
Since being on this site I've noticed alot of Hate and dislike for gundam seed i havent finished the series yet but so far i think its pretty cool and i think Lacus Clyne is hott ,another bonus to watch. So whats wrong with this series ?

Kenico
August 15, 2012, 1:49 AM
the Seed Series is ok to a certain degree. the only problem it has is Recycled animation. Seed Destiny...Facepalm...Wacky, you might wanna explain this one...

WackyModder84
August 15, 2012, 2:04 AM
Y'know what, I think it's best I ask this forum the same thing I asked Reddit a little while ago and see what you guys think about this matter:

As Gundam fans, which Mainstream Gundam Anime would you say get's picked on the most out of all the ones out there?
Mainstream Gundam animes consist of: Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Gundam SEED, and Gundam 00. The answer to my question above should be obvious, of course. Out of all the Mainstream Gundam Animes out there, the Cosmic Era is without a doubt the most Controversial Era in all of Gundam.

It's honestly something that has developed quite a negative reputation in the Gundam Community based on all the major problems it suffers from; one of these major problems being Gundam SEED Destiny in it's entirety. When I saw the 1st Gundam SEED, I did enjoy it, but at the same time, I did notice quite a lot of flaws with it that I wished were patched up. Granted, Gundam SEED HD Remastering IS an improvement, the problem is: it didn't fully solve the problem.
The Cosmic Era Timeline was meant to be a re-imagining of the Universal Century Timeline. In some ways, it did just that. But in most other ways, it fell flat on it's face. And as a result, the Cosmic Era has become nothing but "The Joke Timeline" in the Gundam Community for haters, UC Fanboys, Wing Fanboys, etc... to pick on all the time.
Being someone who has been a fan of gundam for 16 years straight now, I'm honestly getting sick and tired of having to constantly explain everything that is wrong about the Cosmic Era Timeline to SEED Fanboys who deny the plainly obvious flaws, but at the same time: I really wish Gundam SEED was more than what it currently is with all of it's major problems:

- Kira and Lacus being complete Mary-Sue Characters without question.
- Shinn Asuka being dropped as the main character in replace of Kira at the last minute in SEED Destiny, and thus having his entire character being pointlessly built up from the beginning and then having all of his character development completely thrown out the window.
- Kira being always right and never wrong about everything that comes out of his mouth.
- Kira inexplicably cheating death 3 times in a row with no explanation as to how he survived each time.
- Mu La Flaga inexplicably surviving a Lohengrin to the face at the end of SEED when it clearly showed his shattered helmet floating through space.
- The new cast in Gundam SEED Destiny being overshadowed by the Old Cast because apparently the new cast wasn't as well recieved by the fans.
- The Constant use of Flashbacks and Re-Cap Episodes.
- Gundam SEED having as much Recycled Stock Footage as Gundam Wing, and Gundam SEED Destiny have more recycled stock footage than Scooby Doo.
- Massive unoriginality in the designs of Six Major Gundams in SEED Destiny, and in some cases: Mobile Suit Design that made absolutely no sense.
- Vaguely and/or Unexplained Technology all over the place.
- Athrun having the Same Exact Character Development Arc in SEED Destiny that he did in SEED.
- Kira having absolutely NO character development at all in Destiny.
- Pointless wasted characters such as Miguel Ayman and Heine Westenfluss.
- SEED Destiny's plot being in many ways just a mirror of Gundam SEED's plot all over agian.

I hope that just answered your question about what's wrong with SEED, btw. ;)

This is all sounding like bad fanfiction. After enjoying Gundam SEED my first time around, I had EXTREMELY high hopes for SEED Destiny. I was hoping that they were going to improve on some of the problems that SEED had, but unfortunately it was quite the opposite. It really disappointed me to see SEED turn into nothing but a joke for haters to gripe on. Granted, I will say right now: I am a fan of what Gundam SEED currently is; except for Destiny. Gundam SEED right now, I still think is not TOO bad, and SEED Stargazer was actually Awesome! The only problem with it was that it was too short. I also found the SEED Astray mangas to be Very Enjoyable and with Much Better Story, and I do like how they at least tried to fix some of the plotholes in SEED. But unfortunately, they unintentionally made it worse by contradicting the events in the anime with the explanations they've provided for some of them.

My point here being: I know that Gundam SEED could have been a lot better than this. Mitsuo Fukuda; I understand he's a huge fan of Tomino's, but it seems to me that when he took on the job of doing Gundam SEED, there was still a lot about Gundam that he really didn't fully understand. Gundam is not about Pretty-Boys in Mobile Suits blowing shit up with Superlasers and Beam Spam. It's a war story. It's not about Good Vs. Evil, but rather a War of Different Ideologies.
I think after reading all that, we can all pretty much agree here: What Gundam SEED really needs is NOT an HD Remastering. But rather, a Complete Series Reboot from scratch, and this time NOT done by Mitsuo Fukuda and his Wife. I believe that Gundam SEED can most definitely be fixed and it can really turn out to be a great re-imagining of the Universal Century Timeline if the proper time and effort was put into it.
I don't blame Gundam SEED Destiny for sucking. It wasn't it's fault. It was all due to Bad Directing and Behind-The-Scenes Politics (including Fukuda's Wife coming down with Brain Cancer during SEED Destiny's Development). Which further reinforces that SEED really needs a Reboot due to all the problems that happened during it's development. If SEED was able to get developed with an actual plan in mind, it would be able to turn out FANTASTIC.

So now, I want your opinion on this. Do YOU think that the Cosmic Era Timeline should be Completely Rebooted from the Ground Up?

Kenico
August 15, 2012, 2:16 AM
I think you got that pretty downpat and cut and dried. and honestly couple all this with the stuff i proposed in my Thread of a Remake of Destiny and i think the CE will be reborn as a better SEED series...

Gundamswag
August 15, 2012, 2:24 AM
I think Gundam SEED is the sickest of the Gundam anime that have been dubbed next to 00. That said, The first episode of Destiny had me throwing up from the start. I mean really? It couldn't have been that much more like the first episode of SEED. I choose not to recognize destiny as part of SEED's story at all, because SEED ended spectacularly and was great all the way through in my opinion. While I personally love the series, I also believe that it could have been better like without all the stock footage.

I think Wing is the worst out of the mainstream Gundam Anime although the mecha designs are great.

Kenico
August 15, 2012, 2:34 AM
Yeah, now dont get me wrong the WZ from EW is ok but it cant beat the WZ from the original series :D

Gundamswag
August 15, 2012, 2:42 AM
I think the ver ka wing gundam beats them both. lol

WackyModder84
August 15, 2012, 2:48 AM
I think the ver ka wing gundam beats them both. lol

It does.
Wing Zero Custom has better mobile suit design than the original Wing Zero; even if it seems more Overcumbersome; the Design makes sense due to it being called "WING Gundam Zero".

swark34
August 15, 2012, 5:26 AM
Thanks for the much needed info and opnion


Y'know what, I think it's best I ask this forum the same thing I asked Reddit a little while ago and see what you guys think about this matter:

As Gundam fans, which Mainstream Gundam Anime would you say get's picked on the most out of all the ones out there?
Mainstream Gundam animes consist of: Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Gundam SEED, and Gundam 00. The answer to my question above should be obvious, of course. Out of all the Mainstream Gundam Animes out there, the Cosmic Era is without a doubt the most Controversial Era in all of Gundam.

It's honestly something that has developed quite a negative reputation in the Gundam Community based on all the major problems it suffers from; one of these major problems being Gundam SEED Destiny in it's entirety. When I saw the 1st Gundam SEED, I did enjoy it, but at the same time, I did notice quite a lot of flaws with it that I wished were patched up. Granted, Gundam SEED HD Remastering IS an improvement, the problem is: it didn't fully solve the problem.
The Cosmic Era Timeline was meant to be a re-imagining of the Universal Century Timeline. In some ways, it did just that. But in most other ways, it fell flat on it's face. And as a result, the Cosmic Era has become nothing but "The Joke Timeline" in the Gundam Community for haters, UC Fanboys, Wing Fanboys, etc... to pick on all the time.
Being someone who has been a fan of gundam for 16 years straight now, I'm honestly getting sick and tired of having to constantly explain everything that is wrong about the Cosmic Era Timeline to SEED Fanboys who deny the plainly obvious flaws, but at the same time: I really wish Gundam SEED was more than what it currently is with all of it's major problems:

- Kira and Lacus being complete Mary-Sue Characters without question.
- Shinn Asuka being dropped as the main character in replace of Kira at the last minute in SEED Destiny, and thus having his entire character being pointlessly built up from the beginning and then having all of his characater development completely thrown out the window.
- Kira being always right and never wrong about everything that comes out of his mouth.
- Kira inexplicably cheating death 3 times in a row with no explanation as to how he survived each time.
- Mu La Flaga inexplicably surviving a Lohengrin to the face at the end of SEED when it clearly showed his shattered helmet floating through space.
- The new cast in Gundam SEED Destiny being overshadowed by the Old Cast because apparently the new cast wasn't as well recieved by the fans.
- The Constant use of Flashbacks and Re-Cap Episodes.
- Gundam SEED having as much Recycled Stock Footage as Gundam Wing, and Gundam SEED Destiny have more recycled stock footage than Scooby Doo.
- Massive unoriginality in the designs of Six Major Gundams in SEED Destiny, and in some cases: Mobile Suit Design that made absolutely no sense.
- Vaguely and/or Unexplained Technology all over the place.
- Athrun having the Same Exact Character Development Arc in SEED Destiny that he did in SEED.
- Kira having absolutely NO character development at all in Destiny.
- Pointless wasted characters such as Miguel Ayman and Heine Westenfluss.
- SEED Destiny's plot being in many ways just a mirror of Gundam SEED's plot all over agian.

I hope that just answered your question about what's wrong with SEED, btw. ;)

This is all sounding like bad fanfiction. After enjoying Gundam SEED my first time around, I had EXTREMELY high hopes for SEED Destiny. I was hoping that they were going to improve on some of the problems that SEED had, but unfortunately it was quite the opposite. It really disappointed me to see SEED turn into nothing but a joke for haters to gripe on. Granted, I will say right now: I am a fan of what Gundam SEED currently is; except for Destiny. Gundam SEED right now, I still think is not TOO bad, and SEED Stargazer was actually Awesome! The only problem with it was that it was too short. I also found the SEED Astray mangas to be Very Enjoyable and with Much Better Story, and I do like how they at least tried to fix some of the plotholes in SEED. But unfortunately, they unintentionally made it worse by contradicting the events in the anime with the explanations they've provided for some of them.

My point here being: I know that Gundam SEED could have been a lot better than this. Mitsuo Fukuda; I understand he's a huge fan of Tomino's, but it seems to me that when he took on the job of doing Gundam SEED, there was still a lot about Gundam that he really didn't fully understand. Gundam is not about Pretty-Boys in Mobile Suits blowing shit up with Superlasers and Beam Spam. It's a war story. It's not about Good Vs. Evil, but rather a War of Different Ideologies.
I think after reading all that, we can all pretty much agree here: What Gundam SEED really needs is NOT an HD Remastering. But rather, a Complete Series Reboot from scratch, and this time NOT done by Mitsuo Fukuda and his Wife. I believe that Gundam SEED can most definitely be fixed and it can really turn out to be a great re-imagining of the Universal Century Timeline if the proper time and effort was put into it.
I don't blame Gundam SEED Destiny for sucking. It wasn't it's fault. It was all due to Bad Directing and Behind-The-Scenes Politics (including Fukuda's Wife coming down with Brain Cancer during SEED Destiny's Development). Which further reinforces that SEED really needs a Reboot due to all the problems that happened during it's development. If SEED was able to get developed with an actual plan in mind, it would be able to turn out FANTASTIC.

So now, I want your opinion on this. Do YOU think that the Cosmic Era Timeline should be Completely Rebooted from the Ground Up?

thwalker13
August 15, 2012, 7:40 AM
Like wacky I also wish that they would reboot and redo SEED. I'm a fan of SEED, but like wacky those problems are annoying. And if fixed, SEED could be an amazing anime.

Deathscythe!
August 15, 2012, 12:13 PM
Since being on this site I've noticed alot of Hate and dislike for gundam seed i havent finished the series yet but so far i think its pretty cool and i think Lacus Clyne is hott ,another bonus to watch. So whats wrong with this series ?

Godness, are you serious? Do really think Lacus's hot? I don't regard her as that and I affirm I am hetero xD

swark34
August 15, 2012, 1:15 PM
Yea shes hot what wrong with her, shes slim cute face seems like she coo lol if she was real



Godness, are you serious? Do really think Lacus's hot? I don't regard her as that and I affirm I am hetero xD

Joe
August 15, 2012, 3:33 PM
I don't understand the hate for this series. I also think it's kind of pointless to get so exacerbated over ANY part of the Gundam franchise. Being able to point out every little detail that's wrong with a series is JUST as bad as ranting about how AWESOME it is.

I like SEED and SEED Destiny. No, I don't think it's the best series ever and I don't think Kira is Jesus and I don't think the Strike Freedom is the best incarnation of any mech design ever - but they are all pretty okay.

I just feel like I need to give some counter points to WackyModder84's points above:


- Kira and Lacus being complete Mary-Sue Characters without question.
I'm not sure what this means. So I do Question this :-P.

- Shinn Asuka being dropped as the main character in replace of Kira at the last minute in SEED Destiny, and thus having his entire character being pointlessly built up from the beginning and then having all of his character development completely thrown out the window.
I think this happening (while done only for "ratings") is so true to life. How many people go through such devastation and try so hard to live a life that somehow will make everything right, somehow validate all the crap that has happened to them only to end up with nothing and being so unimportant. I think this adds so much to Shinn's over all character. There is development, even if he ends up taking a back seat, he still develops as a character and one can really sympathize with him for everything that has happened even when he is being a whiny brat.

- Kira being always right and never wrong about everything that comes out of his mouth.
Every series has this character, it's just that Kira was blatantly written to be a saint. Treize comes to mind here. That guy was always right, always made the right moves and said the right thing, even when you thought he was an evil bastard, you knew he was right. But Kira also was supposedly genetically perfect and had a pure heart, so how else are you supposed to show these traits? You make him unstoppable in combat and infallible.

- Kira inexplicably cheating death 3 times in a row with no explanation as to how he survived each time.
Heero cheated death, Zechs cheated death, Char cheated death on a number of occasions. This is nothing new to Gundam. I mean when Heero self-destructed the Wing Gundam, did you see that pool of blood he was laying in? Yeah, he basically bled out completely and should have been dead right there.

- Mu La Flaga inexplicably surviving a Lohengrin to the face at the end of SEED when it clearly showed his shattered helmet floating through space.
Okay, this one I'll give you! Fukuda reportedly just decided out of the blue that Mu La Flaga survived when SEED Destiny was first being discussed.

- The new cast in Gundam SEED Destiny being overshadowed by the Old Cast because apparently the new cast wasn't as well recieved by the fans.
Would you rather them just cancel the series all together? Ratings are important to a show's production. If the fans want more Athrun and Kira and they show it by not watching, they're going to get what they want or the series gets canceled.

- The Constant use of Flashbacks and Re-Cap Episodes.
I hate flashbacks and clip shows as much as anyone, so another point I will concede here.

- Gundam SEED having as much Recycled Stock Footage as Gundam Wing, and Gundam SEED Destiny have more recycled stock footage than Scooby Doo.
The two series, I feel have about the same amount of stock footage. But you have to cut some costs in animation. Keep in mind, Turn A was supposed to be the last Gundam. Fukuda wasn't given the budget that Tomino would have gotten.

- Massive unoriginality in the designs of Six Major Gundams in SEED Destiny, and in some cases: Mobile Suit Design that made absolutely no sense.
Okay this argument deserves a lot more than I can give right now. Suffice it to say, I feel your arguments against the Destiny Gundam and the Strike Freedom (and yes I've watched your half hour long rants on YouTube) don't hold water in most cases. I would like to point out that none of the points you've made about either suit is "proof" of anything. Proof implies that something is proven to be true beyond shadow of a doubt. You have merely given evidence of your opinions on why these Gundams "suck" when I think most of the things you've mentioned are why I LIKE the Destiny Gundam and the Strike Freedom. And when you say these Gundams are just ripping off other Gundams... EVERY Gundam after the FIRST Gundam has ripped off another Gundam, period. Even the first Gundam was inspired by other Mecha. Nothing is original.

- Vaguely and/or Unexplained Technology all over the place.
Wing, G, X, Star Wars, Ender's Game, how many other Sci-Fi series do you want me to list that have vague or unexplained tech all over the place? It's made up tech! It doesn't have to be realistically explained.

- Athrun having the Same Exact Character Development Arc in SEED Destiny that he did in SEED.
Some people just can't make up their minds. Char does the same thing after Zeta, goes back to Zeon (albeit he's in charge in CCA) but he basically reverts back to being Amuro's rival, being the Red Comet, and complaining about Lalah. I think at least Athrun has a better story arch in Destiny than Char does in CCA.

- Kira having absolutely NO character development at all in Destiny.
He already had his character fully developed in SEED, he was realized as the perfect coordinator. How much further can you go with him? Does Indian Jones's character keep developing every movie? Better Example: Duo Maxwell has like zero character development in Wing, yet he is still a great character. He's the same free spirited, fun loving guy through thick and thin the whole time.

- Pointless wasted characters such as Miguel Ayman and Heine Westenfluss.
This one kind of pisses me off because Heine could have been such an AWESOME character, a real balance to Kira. But just like with Shinn's character taking a back seat, this kind of thing is also true to life. So many great War Heros are struck down in battle, it's a shock and dramatic and sad. I think that's why these things happen.

- SEED Destiny's plot being in many ways just a mirror of Gundam SEED's plot all over agian
Just like Gundam Wing is the Universal Century from first Gundam to CCA condensed down into a 49 episode anime. Yeah. Although I think Destiny was different enough from SEED that it didn't feel like it was a direct copy. I felt Destiny was more along the lines of Zeta than SEED but still had it's own over all plot.

Like I said, I like SEED and SEED Destiny. Not the greatest two series, but they are good. I think this whole bashing SEED thing is ridiculous and it's old hat and it should die. I think claiming SEED and Kira and Strike Freedom as the best things in the world and then fighting tooth and nail to defend them as such is also pointless and should die.

Bare this in mind: Turn A was supposed to be it for Gundam. Without SEED/SEED Destiny and Fukuda with all his flip-flopping and vague story telling, Gundam would have taken a fall. SEED kept the franchise going so we could eventually move on and experience the awesome 00 series and the AGE series and who knows? If Gundam had died off after Turn A, would we have Unicorn?

I think SEED deserves credit for at least that, keeping Gundam going and bringing in new fans so it could continue.

Lets lay this all to rest and just enjoy the hobby and the animes and the mangas without causing a firestorm over series's that are a decade old (SEED) and almost a decade old (Destiny). It's like complaining about the WMD's that we never found in Iraq, WHATEVER, done, over with, move on.

thwalker13
August 15, 2012, 3:56 PM
Joe. You're the man.

OlNems
August 15, 2012, 3:57 PM
Godness, are you serious? Do really think Lacus's hot? I don't regard her as that and I affirm I am hetero xD

You don't think Lacus is hot?

I have this to say to you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-SdeE5va1I

Joe
August 15, 2012, 4:08 PM
Oh, memories, I could sit and watch all two hours of Beavis and Butt-Head laughing. But Yeah Lacus is hot, not the hottest of Gundam Girls, but still hot. although sometimes I kinda would like to slap some duct tape over her mouth... of course if I'm going to do that might as well get out some rope to tie her up too :-P.

Honestly Meer Campbell is more attractive. But I like the submissive-no-self-confidence type when it comes to fantasy girls. ;-)

uncleremuslegend
August 15, 2012, 4:29 PM
thanks for the breakdown Joe! i have issues responding without coming off as a 'tick'... i agree this SEED topic/controversy should be laid down for a long permanent sleep... next thing we know we won't be able to like certain kits 'because they don't meet what i thought it should have been'... or have people preaching at us about how not using a certain paint will cause us to spend an eternity using tshirt paint and a snail-shaped sponge or something else utterly ridiculous... at least this kind of thinking hasn't made it into the modelling threads and cause me to stop visiting the forums.... thanks again !

Deathscythe!
August 15, 2012, 5:24 PM
either I don't simply find her beautiful generally, or I'm currently having problems regarding women as attractive.

What about Christina mckenzie? She appears to be more suitable..

WackyModder84
August 15, 2012, 5:41 PM
I don't understand the hate for this series. I also think it's kind of pointless to get so exacerbated over ANY part of the Gundam franchise. Being able to point out every little detail that's wrong with a series is JUST as bad as ranting about how AWESOME it is.

I like SEED and SEED Destiny. No, I don't think it's the best series ever and I don't think Kira is Jesus and I don't think the Strike Freedom is the best incarnation of any mech design ever - but they are all pretty okay.

I just feel like I need to give some counter points to WackyModder84's points above:




1.) Mary-Sue Characters are basically the types of characters that are 100% completely FLAWLESS in Character Design and do absolutely no wrong and have the Best Powers from the start and are pretty much Invincible.
These types of characters are The Worst types of characters. They REEK of Bad fanfiction. They're not interesting. These types of characters don't create Drama or Tension whatsoever.
Btw, if you want proof that Lacus Clyne is a Mary-Sue incase you're wondering, here's your proof:
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/116/lacusclyneisamarysue.png

2.) Ok, you wanna know the real reason why everyone has such a massive problem with Shinn? That's easy, dude: He was never given the chance to develop his character.
I can name so many characters in fiction that do bad things, make bad decision, and do things on Impulse; but they learn from their mistakes and reflect on their actions.
It's human nature, dude. Shinn was waiting for that moment of clarity, but because everyone in Japan was in love with Kira and Lacus, they decided "Screw it, get rid of him!".
Let's compare Kamille from Zeta Gundam with Shinn; since Shinn was supposed to be Kamille's re-imagined successor.
Kamille had plenty of time to grow as a character. He Learns from his mistakes, comes to a realization, etc...
This is all just Basic Storytelling, dude. This should come as Common Sense to people who write fiction. Main Characters usually have to end up in a low-point before eventually rising up in the Climax.
In Shinn's case, his low point was Defeating Kira when he was piloting the Freedom and then being brainwashed and manipulated by Durandal. That was Shinn's low-point in Destiny.
The thing that pisses me off to no end about Shinn was that the setup for his Character to develop was ALL RIGHT THERE!
For Shinn to come to a realization and think: "Wow....everything I've been doing up to this point has been wrong. o_o". THERE YA GO! That would have been a great way to develop him, and it would distinguish himself from other Main Gundam Characters before him!
But NOPE! Instead of developing him, they completely drop his character; thus, wasting all that time developing him for no reason, just to have Kira come back from the Dead for the 3rd time in a row, take over as the Main Character, and pad everything out.
That's pretty weak story-telling. >_>

3.) May I remind you once again about what Mary-Sue Characters are?
Pure-Heart Characters still reek of bad fanfiction. How many characters in fiction are complete douchebags but are still way more interesting as characters?
EXAMPLES: Light Yagami (Death Note). Lelouche Vi Britannia (Code Geass). Alucard (Hellsing). Dante (Devil May Cry). ETC...
There is nothing wrong with characters having flaws, dude. It's Human.
And also, Kira being "The Ultimate Coordinator" has nothing to do with him being uber-powerful or anything like that.
Rau Le Creuset was the one that explained just WHY Kira was the Ultimate Coordinator to begin with.
It's because of the fact that Kira was the only coordinator in existance to be born from an Artificial Womb. THAT'S IT. That's the only reason why he is classified as "The Ultimate Coordinator.
The fact that everyone uses that as an excuse to try to defend Kira just goes to show that they really weren't paying attention to that part during Gundam SEED.... >_>

4.) Zechs coming back in Endless Waltz was way more plausible to debate on. Even though, yes, Zechs is semi-guilty of that problem, I still do admit.
As for Char cheating death: If you're taking about survivng that explosion in the Hyaku Shiki from Zeta Gundam, that plot-hole was completely filled with an explanation in the Special Edition of Zeta Gundam. Recommend you take a look at that if you haven't already.
As for Kira cheating death in SEED twice and in Destiny a 3rd time, the situations he was in were 100% physically impossible to survive, and they gave us No Rational Explanation for Each of the 3 times he did it.
Infact.....uh....I hope I'm not going to get in trouble for this, but I did infact make a Rant on YouTube about Kira's 3rd "Jesus Yamato" Moment that took place during the Freedom VS. Impulse Battle.

Check it out for yourself (WARNING: Severe Language)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcWHKT8eH8s

5.) If SEED Destiny was already that negatively looked on for it being the way it was, then the only ones to blame for that happening were Mitsuo Fukuda and his Wife for having Bad Writing and Bad Directing.
Honestly, if SEED Destiny was going to end up cancelled as a result, better to put it out of it's misery than to have it make everything even worse than they already are.
Gundam X seemed to make the right call on that part with it only having 39 Episodes. But now a days, Gundam X is growing more and more popular; even with only it's 39 Episodes.

6.) No offense, Joe. But using the budget as a shield is nothing but an excuse. I've had SEED Fanboys do that with me all the time. >_>
SEED Destiny has more than enough budget to get the job done. The problem is: they were spending it on pointless things. Such as T.M.Revolution's Voice Acting, as an example.
I highly doubt SEED Destiny was made with an actual plan in mind; since Fukuda's Wife came down with Brain Cancer and was turning in scripts late.
Honestly, why they even bothered to keep going with SEED Destiny is beyond me if your wife was the main writer and she came down with a fatal illness like that.
But like I said: SEED only had about as much Recycled Animation as Gundam Wing and Macross 7. SEED Destiny takes that to a whole new extent by not only recycling it's own animation, but at the same time: recycling scenes from the First SEED in there as well. It's an anomaly of animation. I don't think I've ever seen any animation stance this half-assed before in Gundam.

7.) Like I said before. All I showed was that those Six Major Gundams do infact have Unoriginality in them. When I said "The Ultimate Proof as to why these gundams SUCK!" that was merely my opinion there.
All I did was reveal the unoriginality and let everyone else decide if they love or hate the gundams after learning more about them.

8.) May I remind you that with the exception of G Gundam and Turn A Gundam, gundam is a Real-Robot Mecha Franchise that helped pave the way for other Real-Robot Mecha Franchises to spawn; such as Macross for example.
In terms of the Universal Century Timeline; and even Gundam Wing and Gundam 00, you can pretty much look up anything in regards to technology in those timelines, and you will get very detailed explanations as to how they work.
In Gundam SEED; it's like Half of those detailed explanations just went missing and it's as if they think Mainstream Gundam Fans are morons who don't care about important things like that and only like Yaoi Pretty-Boys in Gundams blowing stuff up with Superlasers and Beam-Spam. Gundam Fans (for the most part, at least) are not stupid, dude. >_>

9.) Char didn't stop doing what he wanted to do at all. He was still fighting against the earth with the A.E.U.G. just like Zeon were doing in the first place.
It's just that he was fighting with a different group to do just that. He went became the leader of Neo-Zeon in CCA to force humanity to come into space so that they could all become newtypes.
That was his goal after everything he's been through in Zeta with his experiences with Kamille and Amuro. Char's goals didn't change a damn bit and his character development kept going and did not reset at all.
In Athrun's case, it's as if he learned absolutely nothing from the 1st Gundam SEED, and all the stuff he experienced there was just forgotten. They totally flip-flopped him.

10.) Exactly! Kira had no inner conflict to deal with in SEED Destiny. He gained nothing from any of the events that happened there. He was just there for pure fan-service @ first, and decided at the last minute to come back as the main character and pad everything out.
Remember Zeta Gundam: Neither Amuro NOR Char managed to take a way any of the spotlight from Kamille and yet both of them still grew as characters; despite having nowhere near as much screen-time as Kamille did.

11.) Ok, you wanna know why these characters were killed off as quickly as they were? It was because T.M.Revolution was the one that voiced both those characters, and he was charging Sunrise a lot of money to voice act; so much to the point where they could only afford to keep him Voice Acting for about 2-3 episodes. Honestly, if T.M.Revolution was going to charge that much to the point where they have to kill off two characters that could have been great, then you really have to ask yourself: Was it really worth it?

12.) I never said SEED Destiny was a DIRECT copy. But what I am saying is that quite a lot of the events in SEED Destiny seem like a mirror of things happening in Gundam SEED.
The 1st Scene in SEED Destiny was pretty much an exact copy of the scene from Heliopolis; since the Gundams were stolen in the same exact way, and there was only one gundam left that could fight them off.

Gundamswag
August 15, 2012, 5:57 PM
While it was unexplained as to how Kira survived the explosion in the epic Aegis Vs. Strike battle, I think it's safe to assume he just got out of the gundam before the explosion and they didn't show it.

WackyModder84
August 15, 2012, 6:07 PM
While it was unexplained as to how Kira survived the explosion in the epic Aegis Vs. Strike battle, I think it's safe to assume he just got out of the gundam before the explosion and they didn't show it.

That's impossible, dude. :rolleyes:
Take this into account:

1.) He was still strapped into the cockpit seat.
2.) The Aegis was grabbing the torso of the Strike; thus blocking his only means of escape.
3.) The outline of where Kira's body was sitting in the chair was literally burned into the seat.

All the evidence points to Kira being deader than #%&!, and the fact that he's still alive after something like that only reinforces his Mary-Sue reputation amongst haters, unfortunately.

squeam
August 15, 2012, 6:17 PM
dude.

*Moved this thread to the "Battleground" where it rightly belongs.*

WackyModder84
August 15, 2012, 6:24 PM
dude.

*Moved this thread to the "Battleground" where it rightly belongs.*

I was actually tempted to bring that up too.
A thread like this really deserves to be in "Battleground" instead of in "The Gundam Universe". :rolleyes:

Exia
August 15, 2012, 6:49 PM
You guys take this too seriously, it's actually kind of a joke now.

WackyModder84
August 15, 2012, 7:33 PM
You guys take this too seriously, it's actually kind of a joke now.

I think you're starting to see why people think I'm outta my mind with my criticism sometimes, Exia.

Is it a crime to have a discussion about something we both enjoy? :rolleyes:
Gundam has both it's ups and downs, and SEED Destiny was one of it's major downs.
It's not like the U.C. Timeline doesn't have anything wrong with it. I mean, we have G-Saviour for christ sake; which is WORSE than SEED Destiny. T_T

Gundam Wing has Frozen Teardrop as it's Low-Point.
GUNPLA Builders has Beginning D and Beginning J as it's Low-Point.
Gundam 00 has Awakening of the Trailblazer as it's Low-Point.
And of course, Gundam SEED Destiny is the Cosmic Era's Low-Point.

There are only two things worse than all of which I just mentioned:

1.) Doozy Bots
2.) China Gundam SEED (XuYoJi)

Joe
August 15, 2012, 7:34 PM
1)For someone to be a flawless character reeks of bad fiction? A flawless character is the definition of fiction because it can't exist. A flawless character gives something for other characters to be compared against, gives a frame of reference for the audience. And again, your graphic there is EVIDENCE not proof.

2)Shinn isn't who you hate then, it's the writing staff. Please make that clear. Like I said, plenty of people in real life situations often never develop, never reach that turning point. Shinn is a realist character because his life is ruined, he tries rectify or justify himself and his situation, and never does. He gets kicked to the curb just like real people do everyday. That makes him an attractive character, because you can sympathize or empathize with his story.

3) See number 1. Yes, yes, ultimate coordinator because he was born from an artificial womb, but he also had perfect genetics which no other coordinator did because of the influence from the mother... hmm who's not paying attention in SEED?

4) You don't need an explanation for every time someone seemingly comes back from the dead. I'm not going to watch your rant, because quite frankly, I can't stand to listen to anyone rant about something that never needed to be ranted about. Keep in mind, I'm a political science major. I listen to a lot of rantings, I know pointless nonsense when I hear it.

5) Gundam X is growing more and more popular? I see no evidence of that, just as popular as it always has been as far as I can tell. As for the cancellation of Destiny, I would rather have what we have no that a rushed ending. There would have been way too many loose ends to tie up at the turning point of character focus. But there are arguments for either side of that coin.

6)The budget is a factor, period. Was there priority issues with that money, probably, but money is always a factor. You can't discount that, ever. And if your wife? life partner? whatever was passionate about something and she/he was dying of a terminal illness are you going to make them stop doing what they love? Are you going to crush them and tell them they can't finish one last project?

7)You were not just stating an opinion. You were bashing, harshly I might add, fans of the series, the MS, and the pilots. You very clearly were trying to convince anyone that would listen that those two suits are the worst Gundams ever created and anyone who disagreed is wrong. You can present information, evidence and opinions without dropping the F-Bomb all over the place, without yelling and screaming, and without insulting people.

8)I never said Gundam fans were stupid, dude. Even with explanations of things in Sci-Fi, it's still just fiction. And I'm pretty sure a majority (that's over 50%, so don't go claiming I said anything over that amount) of Gundam fans don't really care all that much if they have a fake explanation of a fake technology from a fake universe. You don't have to have that fake science to make a story good. So, I think that point is moot.

9)Have you watch CCA? All Char cared about was whining about Lalah and how he missed her (She could have been a mother to me), beating Amuro (Amuro, I'm doing something extremely wicked), and dropping axis on Earth. It wasn't about Newtypes anymore. If he wanted peope to move into space, he would had people move into space and not gone to ward and try to exterminate Earthnoids. The dude regressed considerably in CCA. Yeah, in Zeta he was going to be a charismatic young leader and he was making progress, and then not at all, just defeat Amuro and kill the Earthnoids.

10) I agree with this point, I still don't mind that Kira took the spotlight. In the end would I have preferred Shinn remaining the focus, maybe. I'll never no for sure, but I think destiny ended up okay. Kira, being the flawless character he was, became a moral compass. Are you saying that he was wrong? Do you agree with his character's morality? Or should everyone have just become slaves to their genetic dispositions as Durandal would have had them do? I'm assuming there is some decency in you and you acknowledge free will. Bottom line no one else in the SEED character raster seemed to want to take the initiative against the bad guys, so Kira and Lacus had to.

11) Again, true to life tragedy, I don't care about the real world explanation, when Hiene was killed off, I got pissed and it brought me into the story.

12)I don't see where you've made much more for your original point here. I don't know. Don't most Gundam shows start with a Gundam-jacking :-P


There's no arguing with you, man. You say you're an anti-troll. But what is a troll? Someone who belligerently shouts his very strong opinions all over the place to incite some sort of controversy and won't concede a point or reason with anyone and it's almost always over something that has no real life worth in the first place. I'm done arguing, this has been fun.

Good night.

Exia
August 15, 2012, 7:47 PM
I didn't mean a good joke, I meant like "a waste of my time why would bandai ever bother trying when as it is SEED brings in $$$" joke.

WackyModder84
August 15, 2012, 11:44 PM
I didn't mean a good joke, I meant like "a waste of my time why would bandai ever bother trying when as it is SEED brings in $$$" joke.

Ok, you do have a huge point there. >_>
One thing that Bandai and Sunrise were swimming in money due to Gundam SEED was the GUNPLA department.

swark34
August 16, 2012, 4:42 AM
Christina is ok, But if i had to choose it would be either Haman or Fa, or Nena Trinity



either I don't simply find her beautiful generally, or I'm currently having problems regarding women as attractive.

What about Christina mckenzie? She appears to be more suitable..

swark34
August 16, 2012, 4:43 AM
Joe your a bad man , you know your stuff


I think you're starting to see why people think I'm outta my mind with my criticism sometimes, Exia.

Is it a crime to have a discussion about something we both enjoy? :rolleyes:
Gundam has both it's ups and downs, and SEED Destiny was one of it's major downs.
It's not like the U.C. Timeline doesn't have anything wrong with it. I mean, we have G-Saviour for christ sake; which is WORSE than SEED Destiny. T_T

Gundam Wing has Frozen Teardrop as it's Low-Point.
GUNPLA Builders has Beginning D and Beginning J as it's Low-Point.
Gundam 00 has Awakening of the Trailblazer as it's Low-Point.
And of course, Gundam SEED Destiny is the Cosmic Era's Low-Point.

There are only two things worse than all of which I just mentioned:

1.) Doozy Bots
2.) China Gundam SEED (XuYoJi)

Deathscythe!
August 16, 2012, 7:39 AM
If this arguing concerning seed keeps progressing, our forum will be torn in two halves. You are able to think of which it could be.

WackyModder84
August 16, 2012, 5:59 PM
If this arguing concerning seed keeps progressing, our forum will be torn in two halves. You are able to think of which it could be.

Exactly! And does this not further reinforce my 1st post on this thread about the Cosmic Era needing to be completely rebooted?!
If the Cosmic Era was not so heavily flawed like this, flame wars and controversial debates like this would not exist.
This is something I wish would get fixed, because what I wish would happen was that Gundam Fans would acknowledge both the Goods AND Bads of what they love and come to terms with them, so that we may all love Gundam in peace.
Even if, Hypothetically Speaking, the Cosmic Era Timeline does infact get rebooted and all of SEED's problems are fixed, and SEED no longer has a reason to be hated on, it's probably not gonna stop people ENTIRELY. But the number of Haters would Dramatically Decrease.
And honestly, with SEED: That's all that matters at this point. Because flame wars and controversial debates like this are becoming all too common with SEED.
Hell, just the fact alone that this thread is all about "Gundam SEED Hate" further proves my point about the Cosmic Era being nothing but A Joke for people to pick on all the time due to it's Massive Flaws, does it not?

GNzaku0023
August 16, 2012, 6:24 PM
If the Cosmic Era was not so heavily flawed like this, flame wars and controversial debates like this would not exist.

If over zealous people stopped arguing tooth and nail over an animated series, flame wars and "controversial" debates like this would not exist.
>>True Story.

WackyModder84
August 16, 2012, 7:14 PM
If over zealous people stopped arguing tooth and nail over an animated series, flame wars and "controversial" debates like this would not exist.
>>True Story.

Very true, but you gotta remember: Anime is a culture. Disagreements are unavoidable. But keeping them to a minimum is what really matters.
Flawed Animes are ripe for flame wars and heated debates. It's going to happen.

squeam
August 16, 2012, 10:34 PM
So, you think that a new reboot would absolve all conflict and arguments about it? You are talking about creating a perfect anime show that appeals to absolutely everyone on the planet. This mythical show would not only appeal to every soul on earth, but also leave them so satisfied that no would debate anything about it. Basically, you want Bandai to create a...what was it?..."Mary Stu" anime.

Truth be told, one could create a "Gundam _______ Hate" thread about literally any Gundam show and it would inspire all kinds of debate and, heck, maybe even healthy debate. In fact, many - if not all- of the Gundam series have threads on this very forum devoted to them. The difference is that many of those discussions haven't had a personality to fuel vitriolic and base responses because of the way the arguments are presented. THAT is what makes this particular thread sooo "special".

And as Exia stated, it becomes entertaining to watch, like a train wreck.

WackyModder84
August 16, 2012, 10:49 PM
So, you think that a new reboot would absolve all conflict and arguments about it? You are talking about creating a perfect anime show that appeals to absolutely everyone on the planet. This mythical show would not only appeal to every soul on earth, but also leave them so satisfied that no would debate anything about it. Basically, you want Bandai to create a...what was it?..."Mary Sue" anime.

Truth be told, one could create a "Gundam _______ Hate" thread about literally any Gundam show and it would inspire all kinds of debate and, heck, maybe even healthy debate. In fact, many - if not all- of the Gundam series have threads on this very forum devoted to them. The difference is that many of those discussions haven't had a personality to fuel vitriolic and base responses because of the way the arguments are presented. THAT is what makes this particular thread sooo "special".

And as Exia stated, it becomes entertaining to watch, like a train wreck.

I never said I wanted a PERFECT Cosmic Era Reboot. But rather, merely one that fixes all of SEED's major problems. No Gundam Anime is perfect, not even Zeta Gundam or Char's Counterattack; and we all know how widely praised those were.
All I'm saying is that if the Cosmic Era were to be rebooted, the amount of haters that are fixated towards picking on SEED would dramatically decrease and SEED fans would be able to live in peace without getting picked on UC Elitists, Wing Fanboys, etc... all the time.
It's never going to go away COMPLETELY, but the important thing here is to stop people from having a reason to hate SEED all the time.

Granted, anyone could hate on anything with gundam for completely the right or wrong reasons, and crap like that is never gonna go away, unfortunately.
But again: Fixing the problems is what minimizes the chances of that happening and lowers the chance of flame wars to pop up.

I'm not asking Bandai to pull a 2nd Coming of Tomino out of their ass, but rather: Just fix the Cosmic Era's biggest problems and cause all this madness to die down.

Joe
August 17, 2012, 12:12 AM
...Disagreements are unavoidable. But keeping them to a minimum is what really matters...

Doing a great job there keeping them to a minimum...
I agree with GNZaku0023, if people stop arguing over pointless things...

gu·ru/ˈgo͝oro͞o/
Noun:
(in Hinduism and Buddhism) 1) A spiritual teacher, esp. one who imparts initiation.
2)Each of the ten first leaders of the Sikh religion.

Is this what you think you are doing; imparting spiritual teachings on us?
Well like other religion, it just sounds like bull to me.

I say you need to change your self proclaimed title.

Another quote of yours:

...because what I wish would happen was that Gundam Fans would acknowledge both the Goods AND Bads of what they love and come to terms with them, so that we may all love Gundam in peace...

Doin' a great job on that one too, seeing as I have acknowledged the faults of SEED/SEED Destiny, gave my interpretations of those faults, and came to terms with those faults. I even went so far as to embrace them so that way, I can like the shows with people who like them and also accept the faults with those that find them. Yet you still argued further...

"Fixing" C.E. will never happen. So the BEST course of action is to accept what we have because it won't change, stop complaining when people are excited about something they really enjoy even when you do see flaw, and then we can all "love Gundam in peace".

Joe
August 17, 2012, 12:32 AM
...All I'm saying is that if the Cosmic Era were to be rebooted, the amount of haters that are fixated towards picking on SEED would dramatically decrease and SEED fans would be able to live in peace without getting picked on UC Elitists, Wing Fanboys, etc... all the time. ...

Oh I see what this is all about! You used to be a HUGE SEED fan! And you got picked on so much that you created this persona to try and infiltrate the UC Elitists and Wing Fanboys to try and stop the hate from within! You're just a big ol' closeted C.E. fanboy! Aww, shucks. Come on out of the closet, buddy! We're not going to pick on you. You're in a safe place.

WackyModder84
August 17, 2012, 12:57 AM
Doing a great job there keeping them to a minimum...
I agree with GNZaku0023, if people stop arguing over pointless things...

gu·ru/ˈgo͝oro͞o/
Noun:
(in Hinduism and Buddhism) 1) A spiritual teacher, esp. one who imparts initiation.
2)Each of the ten first leaders of the Sikh religion.

Is this what you think you are doing; imparting spiritual teachings on us?
Well like other religion, it just sounds like bull to me.

I say you need to change your self proclaimed title.

Another quote of yours:


Doin' a great job on that one too, seeing as I have acknowledged the faults of SEED/SEED Destiny, gave my interpretations of those faults, and came to terms with those faults. I even went so far as to embrace them so that way, I can like the shows with people who like them and also accept the faults with those that find them. Yet you still argued further...

"Fixing" C.E. will never happen. So the BEST course of action is to accept what we have because it won't change, stop complaining when people are excited about something they really enjoy even when you do see flaw, and then we can all "love Gundam in peace".

Oh I see what this is all about! You used to be a HUGE SEED fan! And you got picked on so much that you created this persona to try and infiltrate the UC Elitists and Wing Fanboys to try and stop the hate from within! You're just a big ol' closeted C.E. fanboy! Aww, shucks. Come on out of the closet, buddy! We're not going to pick on you. You're in a safe place.

If I had a serious problem with you disagreeing with my points I made before, then I would have continued arguing with you before.
I automatically realized that you acknowledged SEED's problems and did not continue to argue with you further on that matter.
I wasn't arguing further with you. I completely ended your debate with me; seeing as you clearly have acknowledged the flaws.
Even in my Strike Freedom and Destiny Rants; I make it Quite Clear that for all who acknowledge the flaws and still love the gundams, I have NOTHING against them in any way, shape, or form.

Is it a problem to try and recommend they fix something broken in Gundam that has amazing potential?
And dude, I am not denying that I am a SEED fan whatsoever. I've already made this known multiple times.
SEED; for what it is right now; with the exception of Destiny, is not that bad and is still enjoyable.
But what I'm saying is: SEED could have been so much more, and could have been a proper Alter-Universe Re-Imagining of the UC Timeline if it was made with the proper plan in mind.
Yes, I'm a SEED Fan, but not a very big one. In terms of Story, the U.C. Timeline will always be my favorite. But for Mainstream Gundam, my current favorite is Gundam 00. (with the exception of the movie, that is)
But that's not saying that I have ZERO Respect for SEED. I have plenty of respect for what it currently is, but I still think that it has so much potential with what it's trying to do that it could be Fixed Completely by having a Series Reboot that is done by different people this time around.

So why exactly do you continue to argue with me on this matter when I clearly stopped arguing with you after your post, Joe?
You're fine. You accept SEED and Destiny's Flaws. I've got NOTHING against you for that whatsoever.

P.S. is double-posting even allowed? O_o

Asterisk
August 17, 2012, 1:25 AM
It's more frowned upon than anything.

SEED & SEED Destiny Fan
August 31, 2013, 10:50 AM
now i get it why most people hate seed n argue bout it whenever bandai release a new seed kit. i do find the constant recap n recycled animation boring too. bout kira, well he is a very kind guy with soft spot, so its not weird that his words are correct since he has undergo many traumas n become mature. i do find that he is wrong when he attacked n taunted sai when he was in a relationship with flay. i would say it was a waste that he had sex with flay instead of lacus. a good boy that was easily cheated. he has no choice but to escape death or the series will hang halfway. haha. however it does make sense when his freedom was impaled since freedom's cockpit was in the chest instead of abs. despite heavy negative review outside japan, i would think this series is not bad. a series that show moral values n tell us to be more far sighted in real life, a good war n scific show although has limited logics in terms of gundam materials n agile movement. a good love story which show a character like lacus, which is rarely seen in reality. the harro looks good in its size n of course excellent soundtracks. i do agree that a reboot is needed since people are saying the CE is screwed up. as long as the good characters n behaviors of the characters doesn't change, their love story doesnt change, they still survive, im ok with it.

Metalic91
August 31, 2013, 11:19 AM
I have my qualms about both SEED and Destiny, but does it stop me from enjoying them as a Gundam fan: No it does not.
Each Gundam series has its own ups and downs, some more obvious than others, but that doesn't matter for me. I always start any critique of a television series/movie by asking myself the simple question: Was it entertaining? For both SEED and Destiny I was entertained, and I don't feel like I wasted my time in seeing them so for me the flaws are not that so bad that it causes the series to crash and burn, although Destiny came pretty close toward the end. However, this is not G-Saviour we're talking about here, it is a welcome addition to the Gundam title imo, and while I would like to see a complete reboot of Destiny(I think SEED manages to stand on its own pretty well), if it never comes to pass then I won't have a problem and i'll continue to be a Gundam fan.

That is my opinion on the matter.

SEED & SEED Destiny Fan
September 16, 2013, 9:58 AM
Y'know what, I think it's best I ask this forum the same thing I asked Reddit a little while ago and see what you guys think about this matter:

As Gundam fans, which Mainstream Gundam Anime would you say get's picked on the most out of all the ones out there?
Mainstream Gundam animes consist of: Gundam Wing, G Gundam, Gundam SEED, and Gundam 00. The answer to my question above should be obvious, of course. Out of all the Mainstream Gundam Animes out there, the Cosmic Era is without a doubt the most Controversial Era in all of Gundam.

It's honestly something that has developed quite a negative reputation in the Gundam Community based on all the major problems it suffers from; one of these major problems being Gundam SEED Destiny in it's entirety. When I saw the 1st Gundam SEED, I did enjoy it, but at the same time, I did notice quite a lot of flaws with it that I wished were patched up. Granted, Gundam SEED HD Remastering IS an improvement, the problem is: it didn't fully solve the problem.
The Cosmic Era Timeline was meant to be a re-imagining of the Universal Century Timeline. In some ways, it did just that. But in most other ways, it fell flat on it's face. And as a result, the Cosmic Era has become nothing but "The Joke Timeline" in the Gundam Community for haters, UC Fanboys, Wing Fanboys, etc... to pick on all the time.
Being someone who has been a fan of gundam for 16 years straight now, I'm honestly getting sick and tired of having to constantly explain everything that is wrong about the Cosmic Era Timeline to SEED Fanboys who deny the plainly obvious flaws, but at the same time: I really wish Gundam SEED was more than what it currently is with all of it's major problems:

- Kira and Lacus being complete Mary-Sue Characters without question.
- Shinn Asuka being dropped as the main character in replace of Kira at the last minute in SEED Destiny, and thus having his entire character being pointlessly built up from the beginning and then having all of his character development completely thrown out the window.
- Kira being always right and never wrong about everything that comes out of his mouth.
- Kira inexplicably cheating death 3 times in a row with no explanation as to how he survived each time.
- Mu La Flaga inexplicably surviving a Lohengrin to the face at the end of SEED when it clearly showed his shattered helmet floating through space.
- The new cast in Gundam SEED Destiny being overshadowed by the Old Cast because apparently the new cast wasn't as well recieved by the fans.
- The Constant use of Flashbacks and Re-Cap Episodes.
- Gundam SEED having as much Recycled Stock Footage as Gundam Wing, and Gundam SEED Destiny have more recycled stock footage than Scooby Doo.
- Massive unoriginality in the designs of Six Major Gundams in SEED Destiny, and in some cases: Mobile Suit Design that made absolutely no sense.
- Vaguely and/or Unexplained Technology all over the place.
- Athrun having the Same Exact Character Development Arc in SEED Destiny that he did in SEED.
- Kira having absolutely NO character development at all in Destiny.
- Pointless wasted characters such as Miguel Ayman and Heine Westenfluss.
- SEED Destiny's plot being in many ways just a mirror of Gundam SEED's plot all over agian.

I hope that just answered your question about what's wrong with SEED, btw. ;)

This is all sounding like bad fanfiction. After enjoying Gundam SEED my first time around, I had EXTREMELY high hopes for SEED Destiny. I was hoping that they were going to improve on some of the problems that SEED had, but unfortunately it was quite the opposite. It really disappointed me to see SEED turn into nothing but a joke for haters to gripe on. Granted, I will say right now: I am a fan of what Gundam SEED currently is; except for Destiny. Gundam SEED right now, I still think is not TOO bad, and SEED Stargazer was actually Awesome! The only problem with it was that it was too short. I also found the SEED Astray mangas to be Very Enjoyable and with Much Better Story, and I do like how they at least tried to fix some of the plotholes in SEED. But unfortunately, they unintentionally made it worse by contradicting the events in the anime with the explanations they've provided for some of them.

My point here being: I know that Gundam SEED could have been a lot better than this. Mitsuo Fukuda; I understand he's a huge fan of Tomino's, but it seems to me that when he took on the job of doing Gundam SEED, there was still a lot about Gundam that he really didn't fully understand. Gundam is not about Pretty-Boys in Mobile Suits blowing shit up with Superlasers and Beam Spam. It's a war story. It's not about Good Vs. Evil, but rather a War of Different Ideologies.
I think after reading all that, we can all pretty much agree here: What Gundam SEED really needs is NOT an HD Remastering. But rather, a Complete Series Reboot from scratch, and this time NOT done by Mitsuo Fukuda and his Wife. I believe that Gundam SEED can most definitely be fixed and it can really turn out to be a great re-imagining of the Universal Century Timeline if the proper time and effort was put into it.
I don't blame Gundam SEED Destiny for sucking. It wasn't it's fault. It was all due to Bad Directing and Behind-The-Scenes Politics (including Fukuda's Wife coming down with Brain Cancer during SEED Destiny's Development). Which further reinforces that SEED really needs a Reboot due to all the problems that happened during it's development. If SEED was able to get developed with an actual plan in mind, it would be able to turn out FANTASTIC.

So now, I want your opinion on this. Do YOU think that the Cosmic Era Timeline should be Completely Rebooted from the Ground Up?

in seed astray, lowe guele stumbles upon a battle between Athrun's Aegis Gundam and Kira Yamato's Strike Gundam. When the Aegis Gundam self detonates, Lowe uses the Gerbera Straight to cut away the energy waves from the blast. Afterwards, Lowe goes over to the beach and examines the ruined Strike Gundam. He opens the emergency hatch and pulls Kira out of the cockpit. Later, Lowe stumbles into Malchio's house and finds Kisato waiting for him. She tells him she was worried after seeing an explosion so she came to see if he was okay. Lowe asks Malchio to help Kira and explains he had to carry him over after the Red Frame ran out of power. Malchio remembers hearing Kira's name from Lacus. At the Kaguya mass driver, Malchio prepares to take Kira into space to deliver him to Lacus