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Zeta-G
November 6, 2014, 2:15 AM
Just wondering if there were any other Trekkies/Trekkers on the forum.
Personally, I love the franchise, and I consider it second only to Gundam.

This thread is for discussing anything and everything regarding Star Trek. Favorite characters, episodes, quotes, or anything else you want to discuss about the franchise.

Zeta
November 6, 2014, 2:28 AM
I'm a Trekkie and proud of it. I am personally stuck between voting for Janeway and Kirk as my favorite captain. You what just shoot me, I vote for Janeway.

Zeta-G
November 6, 2014, 2:55 AM
Poll is simple. Vote for your favorite captain. I included all of the captains of note from the live action productions, plus two popular captains from the novels.

Personally, Sisko is my captain. Words are simply not enough to convey how awesome he is. Plus he punched Q. :D

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My favorite episodes from each series:
ENT: In a Mirror Darkly (Parts 1 & 2)
TOS: Space Seed (to be perfectly honest and predictable), The Cage (second favorite).
TNG: The Offspring
DS9: Trials and Tribble-ations (Pretty much impossible for me to narrow it down to only one, so I let Dax in a TOS uniform geeking out over everything be the tiebreaker).
VOY: Tuvix

Zeon's RedComet
November 6, 2014, 3:19 AM
Favorite Captain: Picard, grew up with him in TNG, so kind of biased, plus I just love his style.

Though Sisko punching Q was fantastic.

Zeta
November 6, 2014, 4:00 AM
One the reasons I like Janeway is that she basically held the Voyager crew together for 10+ years while traveling through the Delta Quadrant.

Zeta-G
November 6, 2014, 4:25 AM
For me, the problem with Janeway is that she is fundamentally immoral and evil. See: VOY: Tuvix for the perfect example. Honestly, some of the mirror universe villains have a better sense of morality than Janeway. She's the only Star Trek captain that I do not like on any level.
Picard on the other hand is awesome. He's definitely my number 2. I'm not surprised in the least that he is currently the most popular captain in the poll.

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As for Sisko, he basically led the Federation's entire war effort against the Dominion, all while raising his kid alone, dealing with the Klingons' betrayal, playing politics with multiple factions, dating, and dealing with a planet full of religious quacks, who saw him as their prophet. The man knows how to get things done.

V0LTES-V01
November 6, 2014, 8:18 AM
Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a Gundam mechanic!

Exia
November 6, 2014, 8:23 AM
I like Picard, I like Kirk. But I love Archer. The only Star Trek shows I've seen are TNG and ENT, but I've seen all the TOS movies they did and the TNG movies as well as the two reboots. And really TNG is only because BBC America plays them a lot so I was able to watch it all more or less. But with Enterprise, I loved it all. So much so that I actually bought all four seasons on DVD.

Plus the great thing about it with the reboots is it's the only canon Star Trek stuff for that universe. Which is nice.

Zeon's RedComet
November 6, 2014, 8:33 AM
Bad thing about the Reboots?

I doubt they'll ever make a movie or series for the Prime Universe again.

Which sucks. Because I'm not fond of the Reboots at all, to say the least.

Plamobot
November 6, 2014, 9:35 AM
Personally, I love the franchise, and I consider it second only to Gundam.
You and I are reversed. Must be a mirror universe thing. ;)

Picard got my vote. I'm a longtime fan of the franchise (many decades!), and while I love all of the captains, Picard just always stood out to me. I'm also a big fan of the recent novels, as the "relaunches" they've done for the Prime Universe have been excellent. (Seriously, read Destiny and Vanguard, people.)

Zeta-G
November 6, 2014, 11:12 AM
Bad thing about the Reboots?

I doubt they'll ever make a movie or series for the Prime Universe again.

Which sucks. Because I'm not fond of the Reboots at all, to say the least.

With any luck, the split ownership of the franchise will cause CBS to make the (eventual) next TV series part of the Prime universe. But for the love of all that is Trek give us Roddenberry humans again. It forced the writers to think creatively, since they couldn't use the standard interpersonal conflicts so prevalent on other shows. Also keep Berman and Braga away from the showrunner chair. They can be on staff (as they do have some useful talents), but neither is fit to run a TV show. Get Behr, Coto, Moore, or someone else with a track record of being a good showrunner, who also gets what Star Trek is supposed to be about (unlike that idiot J.J. Abrams. Seriously, I can't wait to see him mess up Star Wars too. Oh wait he already has. EU forever!). There's still enough great Star Trek writers left that they ought to be able to build a great writer's room for the inevitable next series.

Psyco Diver
November 6, 2014, 8:49 PM
For me, the problem with Janeway is that she is fundamentally immoral and evil. See: VOY: Tuvix for the perfect example. Honestly, some of the mirror universe villains have a better sense of morality than Janeway. She's the only Star Trek captain that I do not like on any level.
Picard on the other hand is awesome. He's definitely my number 2. I'm not surprised in the least that he is currently the most popular captain in the poll.

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As for Sisko, he basically led the Federation's entire war effort against the Dominion, all while raising his kid alone, dealing with the Klingons' betrayal, playing politics with multiple factions, dating, and dealing with a planet full of religious quacks, who saw him as their prophet. The man knows how to get things done.

SFdebris, is that you?? lmao

He basically says the same thing

Zeta-G
November 10, 2014, 10:39 PM
Whoever that is, s/he is not me.

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So does anyone else play Star Trek Online? It's free to play now, and available for both Windows and Mac. I started playing it about two months ago. Pretty fun so far, although I don't currently have the necessary free time available to really get into it. My main character is an Andorian female. :)

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So does anyone have a favorite Starfleet uniform design? Personally, I'm torn between the early DS9 one for aesthetic and practicality reasons, and the more militaristic WoK uniforms.

Zeta
November 10, 2014, 10:47 PM
I'm torn between the WoK uniforms and the gray ones used in Star Trek Into Darkness. Both of them have a militaristic flavor that I like.

Plamobot
November 11, 2014, 9:23 AM
So does anyone have a favorite Starfleet uniform design? Personally, I'm torn between the early DS9 one for aesthetic and practicality reasons, and the more militaristic WoK uniforms.
For me, I like the post-TMP movie uniforms, the TNG Season 3-7 collared uniforms, the "fatigues" introduced in First Contact, and...yes...the Enterprise jumpsuits. If I had to pick a favorite...probably the post-TMP movie uniforms. But it's a tough call, to be honest.

Zeta-G
November 11, 2014, 10:10 AM
I have no hatred for the Enterprise jumpsuits. They look appropriate for their era.

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I'm not going to lie, I think it's hilarious that no one has voted for Kirk.

Zeon's RedComet
November 11, 2014, 10:16 AM
I have no hatred for the Enterprise jumpsuits. They look appropriate for their era.

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I'm not going to lie, I think it's hilarious that no one has voted for Kirk.

Well let's be fair he's far from the best.

Not the worst, but he ain't no Picard or Sisko.

Zeta-G
November 11, 2014, 10:36 AM
I know that. It's just that this question is usually framed as "Kirk or Picard?" by TOS purists, which is why I found the results of this poll to be hilarious.

In other ST news, I watched "Relics" last night. It was fun.

Exia
November 11, 2014, 10:40 AM
This is why I'm an Archer man. Rules, regulations....bah, Archer helped write the book on what to and not to do lol. Mostly what not to do, but still. My favorite episodes are the ones where he and T'Pol travel around Vulcan and he ends up with Surak's katra. Such a fun series I think I may end up watching it later.

Zeon's RedComet
November 11, 2014, 10:43 AM
Archer was good too.

IMO Enterprise gets alot of Flak but I enjoyed it.

Far from my favorite, but I liked it which is at the end of the day what matters.

Zeta-G
November 11, 2014, 11:05 AM
Archer was good too.

IMO Enterprise gets alot of Flak but I enjoyed it.

Far from my favorite, but I liked it which is at the end of the day what matters.
This. Enterprise gets hated on way too much.

Exia
November 11, 2014, 11:24 AM
It's my favorite series. A few years ago back when SyFy was Sci-Fi they played a couple episodes everyday during the week. I was able to catch nearly the entire series before it got pulled.

I don't really have any interest in TOS so I never bothered to watch it even though I've seen the movies, originals and reboots. All things considered the reboot Star Trek movie got me more interested in Star Trek as a whole. I'd had seen a few TNG episodes by that point, but afterwards I started watching more and eventually saw Enterprise playing. I couldn't really say I have any favorite moments from TNG. But honestly I don't even have a favorite character in TNG or TOS.

With Enterprise each character went thru a phase of being my favorite. Phlox and T'Pol are always great. Hoshi, Mayweather, and Reed were great to see bits and pieces of throughout the show. But really Archer and Tucker are my two favorites. Oh! And Porthos, it was great to see a pet on board a star ship. I loved the episode where Tucker and Reed are stranded in a shuttle. I still remember my favorite part of the episode.

"You hear that.....It's the universe laughing at us." - Reed
"They can laugh all they want, but they're not getting any of our bourbon!" - Tucker

lmfao!

It's especially fun when they go "Captain, we're at Warp 4.5. We can maintain this speed for long." lol, if only they knew.....! Or Phlox using alien animals in the med bay to help cure people. Or the whole Phase Pistol thing. I never realized how much technology was taken for granted in Star Trek until Enterprise played. I knew that each of crews from TOS and TNG went thru missions where they had to work with whatever they could get or go completely native, but with Enterprise it was fun to see how much improved as time went on and they moved to TOS and TNG.

Plamobot
November 11, 2014, 11:46 AM
"Shuttlepod One"! One of the series' best episodes. :D

Exia
November 11, 2014, 11:50 AM
Yeah! That's the one! Loved that episode.

Zeta-G
November 11, 2014, 1:15 PM
I hate Trip, but but other than him, I enjoy all of the leads. I also love Shran. Andorians rule.

Plamobot
November 11, 2014, 1:18 PM
It's Jeffrey Combs. Every role he has is great.

Zeta-G
November 11, 2014, 1:35 PM
True, Weyoun was great too.

Plamobot
November 11, 2014, 1:40 PM
Don't forget Brunt! Lest the FCA liquidators come after you and seize your assets.

Zeta-G
November 11, 2014, 2:18 PM
Yes Brunt! I always loved it whenever he'd pay Quark a visit.

Gundam_Asgard
November 23, 2014, 3:59 AM
I'd give my arm and leg and still follow to the depths of hell and back for Cpt Picard, I would. Possibly my favorite character in live-action television PERIOD.

Zeon's RedComet
December 13, 2015, 8:53 AM
I know this is old news, but I forgot to post it here and don't know if any of you guys are aware, but

http://www.startrek.com/article/new-star-trek-series-premieres-january-2017

New Star Trek series in January.

Zeta
December 13, 2015, 9:03 AM
Oh yeah, I did hear about this. Not to start a fanboy war, but with all the hype surrounding the upcoming Star Wars film I completely forgot that Star Trek would be returning to the small screen.

Zeon's RedComet
December 13, 2015, 9:07 AM
Oh yeah, I did hear about this. Not to start a fanboy war, but with all the hype surrounding the upcoming Star Wars film I completely forgot that Star Trek would be returning to the small screen.

Look to be fair...

I'm a trekie, and I spaced it for months as well, so no harm no foul lol :P

Zeta
December 13, 2015, 9:30 AM
Look to be fair...

I'm a trekie, and I spaced it for months as well, so no harm no foul lol :P

Okay good.

Zeta-G
December 23, 2015, 10:05 AM
One of the clowns responsible for the reboots is in charge of it, so I'm not exactly optimistic. Still it's Star Trek, so I'll give it a chance. TNG got off to a very rocky start, but then it got a new show runner (the late, great Michael Piller), and it became one of the greatest tv shows of all time (that said, DS9 is better). Who knows? Maybe Jar Jar Abrams was to blame for the flaws of the previous two movies, and this guy simply got overruled. Then again he also cowrote Transformers 2...

Zeon's RedComet
December 23, 2015, 10:11 AM
Well it can't be any worse than Beasie Boys space adventure 2Fast2Furious. I mean whatever the hell they're calling the next movie...god that trailer...I just that was bad.

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Good point on the TNG thing, I forgot until I rewatched it earlier this year how much of a rocky start it got off too, I mean in the first few seasons it still had some good stuff, but for the most part it wasn't great especially when compaired to the last half or so.

Zeta-G
December 23, 2015, 10:21 AM
That's kinda why I'm unwilling to write it off. Orci and Kurtzman were a writing team for a long time and the quality of their work has always been hit or miss. With one doing Beyond and the other doing Star Trek 2017, it's time to see who's the Brannon Braga and who's the Ron Moore of the team. Hopefully, the TV show got the Ron Moore half of the team. The Beyond trailer seems to indicate that that might be the case. :D

Zeon's RedComet
December 23, 2015, 10:24 AM
Yeah that trailer made me go "Well the TV show can't be this bad. I mean really." so I have my fair bit of hope and skepticism.

Zeta-G
February 9, 2016, 4:47 PM
Bryan Fuller has been named showrunner and co-creator of Star Trek 2017. Overall, this is pretty good news; he's a veteran Trek writer having previously written for DS9 and Voyager. Fuller later went on to create Dead Like Me, Wonderfalls, and Pushing Daisies. More recently, Fuller was the creator and showrunner of NBC's Hannibal. So while this news may not be the Ira Steven Behr or Ron Moore that all of the Trekkies were hoping for, it is still really good news (plus Fuller being the showrunner is an infinitely better situation than one of Jar Jar Abram's minions directly helming the series). Fuller was responsible for DS9's "Empok Nor" and VOY's "Bride of Chaotica!" after all.

Source: http://m.ign.com/articles/2016/02/09/star-trek-bryan-fuller-named-showrunner-of-cbs-series

Fullrr's Star Trek writing credits: http://www.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Bryan_Fuller

Plamobot
February 9, 2016, 5:03 PM
Good news indeed...

Zeta-G
February 9, 2016, 5:34 PM
I really hope that it's set in the Prime universe. CBS did mention Fuller's vast knowledge of the canon and his love for Roddenberry's vision of the future when they made the announcement, so hopefully that means that it will be. After all why bring up his knowledge of the canon if it won't be relevant to the new show? Then again Fuller said a few years ago that the thought of what TNG would look like in the Abramsverse was an interesting/fun idea for him. For what it's worth he's also previously said that DS9 was his favorite Star Trek spinoff due to all of the character work and that while he loves all of the various Star Trek spinoffs, he also missed the fun of TOS.

So I'm thinking a DS9 type show with the fun/cheese of TOS may be in our future. See: "Trials and Tribble-ations". No seriously, go see it on Netflix, DVD, or Blu-Ray (TOS tribbles disc) right now.

Zeon's RedComet
February 9, 2016, 6:15 PM
That's good news, I also hope it's Prime universe as well.

Only thing I enjoy from the Abrams verse is the ship designs, at least the exteriors, the interiors not as much.

Banshee
February 10, 2016, 8:43 AM
Love Janeway. Big fan of all the captains. Never read Titan, or know anything about Frontiers. Still been a trekking since the late eighties.

Even my Banshee does the Spock.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b331/landshark1/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-12/20151214_233850_zpsuslgfndj.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/user/landshark1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-12/20151214_233850_zpsuslgfndj.jpg.html)

Zeon's RedComet
February 20, 2016, 8:08 AM
I legit think you're the first person I've seen that said that they like Janeway.

Banshee
February 20, 2016, 10:11 AM
Like most Captains, there is no bullshit with her. I thoroughly enjoyed the way she handled things. Not to say any of the others could not do it, I'm most certainly sure any of them would do what they had to. Maybe it's because I'd like to sit, have a cup of coffee, and discuss things with that woman.

Lol

DarKev3
February 20, 2016, 1:30 PM
Please read the New Frontier novels. The Captain's weapon of choice in some situations is a Sword !!!

Zeta-G
February 26, 2016, 6:04 PM
Nicholas Meyer (Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country) has been confirmed as a writer and producer on new Star Trek series.

http://www.startrek.com/article/nicholas-meyer-joins-new-star-trek-series

zoidmagnite
February 26, 2016, 7:01 PM
I love Star Trek. Used to watch the Cartoon and TOS during my single digit development years. When TNG came out, I thought I had died and gone to heaven, and of all of the series, it's the one I think holds closest to me, so yeah, I voted for Picard. I think what made Star Trek great was the science that went into the story and the episodes. I can't really compare Gundam to Star Trek because the premise is so different being about colonization amid economic and power struggles as opposed to Space Exploration when humanity finally gives up the selfish aspects of obsessive desires for wealth and power. I could say the same for Macross, GITS, Cowboy Bebop, and even Z.O.E. in that they are also great Scifi Anime with a different focus on the future. It will be fascinating to see which universe comes to fruition, if any do.

Zeon's RedComet
July 23, 2016, 9:02 PM
http://www.cbs.com/shows/star-trek-discovery/news/1005509/star-trek-discovery-announced-as-name-of-new-series/

So the new show is called Star Trek Discovery which is also the name of the titular ship.

gundammonkey
July 23, 2016, 9:12 PM
Going to see the new star trek movie Monday. IMAX 3D anyone already see it. I don't want to get my hopes up too much, like the last movie. "Nope it will have nothing to do with Khan." says J.J. Abrams that lying bastard!

Zeon's RedComet
July 23, 2016, 9:16 PM
I haven't I haven't watched any of the JJ movies personally. I've heard good things about it, including from a friend that has a hatred of the JJ Verse that I've never seen anyone rival before. He said while it was typical blockbuster stuff still it felt at least bit more trek which is good.


https://youtu.be/bqm9HSYbf0o

Also incase anyone like me is stuck on mobile and the video in that link doesn't work here's a YouTube video of the ship.

Looks very warbirdy, and the music and cloaking sound at the end just sell it more.

Zeta
July 24, 2016, 1:08 AM
I haven't I haven't watched any of the JJ movies personally. I've heard good things about it, including from a friend that has a hatred of the JJ Verse that I've never seen anyone rival before. He said while it was typical blockbuster stuff still it felt at least bit more trek which is good.


https://youtu.be/bqm9HSYbf0o

Also incase anyone like me is stuck on mobile and the video in that link doesn't work here's a YouTube video of the ship.

Looks very warbirdy, and the music and cloaking sound at the end just sell it more.

Which kind of warbird, Romulan or Klingon? If its Klingon, that would make sense since the Klingon Empire is a member of the Federation. Perhaps the Federation started integrating Klingon tech into their starships. On the other hand, if its Romulan, that would be kind of interesting considering that in Next Gen the Federation was still at odds with the Romulan Empire.

Zeon's RedComet
July 24, 2016, 1:43 AM
Which kind of warbird, Romulan or Klingon? If its Klingon, that would make sense since the Klingon Empire is a member of the Federation. Perhaps the Federation started integrating Klingon tech into their starships. On the other hand, if its Romulan, that would be kind of interesting considering that in Next Gen the Federation was still at odds with the Romulan Empire.

Well rumor mill is that this takes place between ENT and TOS, so klingon tech would have to be stolen. Personally think, it looks Klingon esq but clearly federation, Saucer and nacelle config is still there and such, just the lower end of the ship looks very unique for a Fedderation ship.

Zeta
July 24, 2016, 2:55 AM
Well rumor mill is that this takes place between ENT and TOS, so klingon tech would have to be stolen. Personally think, it looks Klingon esq but clearly federation, Saucer and nacelle config is still there and such, just the lower end of the ship looks very unique for a Fedderation ship.

Hmm... perhaps it takes place between TOS and TNG. That was when the Klingon-Federation Alliance formed when the Enterprise-C met its demise.

Zeon's RedComet
July 24, 2016, 2:57 AM
Hmm... perhaps it takes place between TOS and TNG. That was when the Klingon-Federation Alliance formed when the Enterprise-C met its demise.

Could be.

Plamobot
July 24, 2016, 9:11 PM
The Discovery is clearly based on the old Planet of the Titans designs. Which is awesome. :)

Zeon's RedComet
July 25, 2016, 4:43 PM
The Discovery is clearly based on the old Planet of the Titans designs. Which is awesome. :)

Huh just saw a picture of it and it seems it is.

Sadly allot of people I've seen hate the ship for some reason.

http://www.startrek.com/article/what-the-name-discovery-means-to-the-new-star-trek-series

Also a quick little video from the director on the name, it's short but promising that this is going to be actual Trek. I'm glad of that.

Plamobot
July 25, 2016, 9:07 PM
At first, everyone hated the NX-01, and the Voyager, and DS9, and the Enterprise-D...they'll come around.

Exia
July 25, 2016, 9:21 PM
The NX-01 is my favorite!

Kenico
July 26, 2016, 1:36 AM
You too Exia? *Gives a Zeonic Salute* My brother :P

Zeta
July 26, 2016, 1:39 AM
The NX-01 is pretty cool, but I really like the Voyager and the Enterprise-E.

Kenico
July 26, 2016, 1:47 AM
E is another Like but it, the NX-01, Nova Class, and the USS Vengeance from the AT are my tops in no particular order :P

Zeon's RedComet
July 26, 2016, 1:49 AM
Excelsior class is a best.

Zeta
July 26, 2016, 3:31 AM
Speaking of the NX-01, I noticed that in the trailers for Star Trek Beyond that there is a NX-class ship used by Kirk and crew in the movie. Heck, they've even wearing the old Starfleet uniforms that would been used by an NX-class crew.

Plamobot
July 26, 2016, 8:57 AM
It is, but it's a Starship-class vessel that predates the NX-01, despite having a higher registry number. And the movie was a mess. :(

Zeta
July 26, 2016, 2:35 PM
It is, but it's a Starship-class vessel that predates the NX-01, despite having a higher registry number. And the movie was a mess. :(

Well, that's disappointing.

Kenico
July 26, 2016, 3:48 PM
I thought it was AFTER the NX...wow that IS disappointing :(

Plamobot
July 27, 2016, 8:43 AM
It's weird. The registry number is NX-326, but it was launched before the NX-01. You can shoehorn it in there, but it just seems like it should've been something else. e.g., SS-326, instead of NX-326. The most common explanation I've heard is that the NX number was restarted with each new prototype, like the Enterprise.

Regardless, the Quantum Mechanix model of the Franklin looks amazing!

17649

Zeon's RedComet
July 31, 2016, 4:05 AM
That could also explain why some NX numbers are crazy high, like the Prometheus being NX-59650, I mean I doubt it's the 59,650 prototype out of star fleet. At the same time, it being Launched BEFORE the NX in general is a bit weird, especially then since that's before all the time line fuckery of the reboots.

I will agree with you though it looks good. As much as I just ignore and am not keen on the reboots, I will say they do have some good star ship designs, only one I don't really like is the vengence. (and I hope to god it doesn't completely overwrite the possibility of a proper Excelsior class since some seem to see it as the stand in for the Excelsior)

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Also of course I think the NX number can be effected by what the NCC number will be. (Since the aformentioned Excelsior was NX-2000 and then NCC-2000 once it was out of prototype stages)

Zeta-G
August 27, 2016, 12:03 AM
Discovery is set 10 years before TOS (or about a year after "The Cage"). Also I like the preview look of the Discovery. It's not the best looking starship (Excelsior-class says "hi"), but it's also no Intrepid-class (Voyager) either, and it looks a lot better than the Planet of the Titans concept art it's based on. It even looks like something that belongs between the (underrated) NX-01 Enterprise and the ships of the TOS era.

On an unrelated note, I'm sad that Planet of the Titans never saw the light of day, because the plan was to have the legendary Toshiro Mifune play a Klingon. :cry:

Zeon's RedComet
August 27, 2016, 12:12 AM
Nice to see a fellow Excelsior fan.

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Really sad we'll never get an Excelsior as the main ship.

Zeta-G
August 27, 2016, 1:40 AM
Never say never, with this obsession with prequels (Enterprise, then Abramsverse TOS, now a Prime universe TOS prequel) we may get one eventually. Uggh, I'd have rather had something post-Nemesis (be that shortly after or significantly later). Fuller will probably make a good series (especially with Nicolas Meyer on staff), but I'm sick of this prequel crap. I want Ferengi, I want Borg, I want (non-hidden) Romulans, and most of all I want some goddamn Cardassians, and we can't have any of them pre-TOS. Didn't they learn with Voyager and Enterprise the dangers of doing poor substitutes (see: Kazon instead of Klingons) and having convoluted excuses for bringing in popular races (see: Ferengi on either show or Romulans on Enterprise). Don't get me wrong, I'm all for new species too, but it's nice to have some familiar faces running around too. The Lost Era would have been a better time period for a prequel at the very least. Hopefully, we'll at least get an Andorian as a regular (preferably played by Jeffery Combs. Yep, still bitter about not getting Shran as a S5 regular thanks to ENT's cancellation).

Honestly, I think the writers were just too scared/lazy to write TNG-era humans/Federation characters (aka Gene Roddenberry's ideal/perfect humans).

Zeon's RedComet
August 27, 2016, 2:24 AM
Hell they don't even need to make them perfect, there were plenty of humans who were far from in the TNG era. But that probably is a factor. IT's a shame because while Nemesis...well frankly let's face it wasn't that great, post nemesis time frame has allot of potential, to say the least.

I guess the one advantage going for me is like you said at least with all the prequels an Excelsior isn't completely out of the question maybe some day. Hell it was even used well into the TNG era. Granted it was old as hell and mostly shuttled admirals around but still. Actually the ship being old could make things interesting, but if anything they'd go state of the art (which would be understanible especially if by some small hope a post nemesis thing were to happen)

Zeta-G
August 27, 2016, 2:54 AM
Well there are ways to get around TNG perfect human/Federation syndrome. Here's a few:

1) have perfect humans/Starfleet types forced to work, live, and interact alongside various non-Federation cultures on a regular basis (see DS9).
2) have a member of a new/candidate Federation species (or ally) as part of the crew (Again see: DS9).
3) have non-Starfleet humans forced to work with Starfleet for reasons beyond their control (See: Voyager, before it mostly dropped the angle in what the second or third episode?).
4) tell a war story.
5) have a criminal element.
6) tell a story about a political/ideological/philosophical/religious dispute (for the religious bit, I'm well aware of Star Trek humanity's atheism, I was thinking of species like the Bajorans).

Etc.

Like you said, there are ways. It just requires being a bit more creative than most tv shows/movies.

Zeon's RedComet
August 27, 2016, 3:03 AM
Exactly. Hell even the perfect federation syndrome has been gotten around in some of the best members, granted allot of the time it was mind control, but there were officers, like Riker's first captain who were morally questionable. Hell even Picard had his Captain Ahab moment in First Contact, granted that's a bit different, with what the bord did to hi and all.

But yeah it takes effort, easier to set it in the past when the federation was in it's expansion phase so to speak. I do like the Bajoran focused idea. Granted part of that is because I've just finished TNG and am now on DS9 and rewatching it again too. But I've always liked them as a whole.

I mean I still have hope for it don't get me wrong, but another prequel is a bit disappointing.

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That said I don't think perfect Roddenberry humans is that hard to get around or even needs complete avoidance, they did it quite well past TNG season 3 without them always being perfect, but still being quite obvious in a future state of mind, so to speak.

Zeta-G
August 27, 2016, 3:36 AM
I like Roddenberry's perfect humans; they set a high standard for real humans to attempt to reach.

As for the Bajorans, I mostly found them annoying. Ro was awesome (like why she wears the earring on the wrong side), and Kira gets better as DS9 goes on, but overall I thought that the Bajoran religion was the weakest part of DS9. The Bajoran post-occupation rebuilding stuff was far more interesting. That said, the Bajoran religion did allow DS9 talk about issues that Star Trek otherwise wouldn't (see: DS9's S1 finale for example), so that's a plus. And DS9 is by far my favorite Star Trek, so I obviously could tolerate the Bajorans at the very least given how integral they are to DS9 as a whole.

Zeon's RedComet
August 29, 2016, 1:07 AM
I don't mind Roddenbary's humans perse, I just like when the cracks show though, it shows that ther's always room for betterment.

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I wouldn't even use perfect for the most part anyway my self.

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Side note about DS9 since you mentioned it, I forgot how much I love Odo.

Zeon's RedComet
September 25, 2017, 12:19 PM
Gonna necro this thread. Also gonna throw this out here early, spoilers since this is my impromptu thoughts on Discovery since it aired last night. It's gonna be kind of a rambling that I hope doesn't seem like me going 'Old man yells at cloud' but I'll organize it as best I can. When I say spoilers I mean big spoilers, like huge. I'll mark where the major spoilers begin.




Beginning with the artstyle and moreover what was good, personally I like allot of the federation stuff, the Shenzou (the main ship for the first two episodes) is I admit...a bit of a strech to imagine as a ship that's an old ship by pre TOS standards (hell technically speaking the Connie was an old ship class in TOS) but I do like it, other ships fit in a bit better, and I didn't expect them to be completely sixties looking I'm not that naive, but some stuck to it better than others, that said even on the Shenzou there were older style details like the deflector looking like a dish and such. The discovery, even with it's weird floating ball bridge section (think like a Daedalus class but in the middle of a saucer) fits in better than it did with the older Aesthetic, it being based on an old rejected design for Phase II shows though more than it did in the original showing, but they've updated it a bit, still looks good IMO.

Aside from ships the uniforms, aren't bad remind me of sleeker ENT things, mostly because blue not a big fan of them but they're not horrible, and the bridge design feels a bit more advanced than TNG era stuff to a degree, everything is see though panels and such but you do see some physical buttons, what did surprise me is the hand phasers and communicator look TOS, like dead ringers for TOS, another thing is sound design, mostly in computer sounds on the bridge are a dead rip for the old sounds, I think they went a little too heavy with the TNG esq channel opening sound, trying to play on nostalgia (it would seemingly play at random in tense moments) but it was nice seeing that there was some attention paid to it.

Now for the bad, everything Klingon Aesthetic. Oh boy now the big elephant in this room is the Klingons, they've been redesigned again. Yeah. They still have ridges and such as we've seen in trailers but they're all bald, have longer heads, their ears are more morphed into their faces and four nostrils, it's not a horrible redesign and it may even of grown on me had they some hair, it just feels weird. Plus the whole Klingon thing has already been a thing up in the air Redesigned for TMP just to make them more Unique, then we had a Joke about it in DS9 and then ENT came in with an, unneeded IMO explanation but one none the less and it's been thrown out, and there hasn't been a sight of a single TOS Mongol (IN SPACE) among any of them.

Beyond that, unlike with the federation their whole Aesthetic, even beyond make up has been seemingly thrown out the window, now they wear some weird garb that looks like the Bone Invaders/that dude in Beserk's bone armor, but with a more spider web vibe, again it's not awful but it makes me ask why. The ships some are vaguely bird like (too a point where it's almost romulan) and others are more era-ish appropriate battle-cruiser like. We don't see many of them aside from the flagship which is implied to be ancient, but stlll wasn't great. Basically they've been rebooted visually harder than TMP ever did. Not a fan of it. Also I'm going to preface this with I don't speak klingon but from the sounds of it neither did they or rather they didn't speak it well. One thing that felt weird given Kilingon lines in past shows, but was kind of neat as a concept (granted something more 40K than Star trek) was the fact that the main Klingon ship was covered in various sarcophagi of dead klingon warriors. A bit over the top, and I'll get into reasons of my somewhat dislike and like with it in the plot.

Quality wise, the effects were good didn't like the phaser's on the ships they were more like beam bolts (between this and the new LOGH gone are cool solid lasers from ships and both have been to my sadness replaced with more SW like laser bolts-I digress) the CGI it's self isn't the best I've seen, but given that it's a TV series, moreover one that has to have heavy effects every episode so they can't just pull a game of thrones and blow their CGI budget on one big thing each season it's pretty good. Cinematography is okay the lighting feels a bit too stylized for me, beyond that it felt like whoever was in charge of it really. REALLY. Liked dutch angles, solid as whole minus those issues which aside from the overuse of dutch angles is just my opinion and I'm far from an expert on this stuff let me say it there, that's just what I feel.

------Spoilers here.

Now for the plot. It's a mixed bag, going to preface this all though with I don't hate it and am actually somewhat interested and will be continuing with the show. Starts off well enough we get a scene introing the main character and the captain of the Shenzou introduces their character's relationships as mentor, and mentee well then it gets to the actual overall plot they get called out to the fringes of space to check on a damaged probe and find an obscured object near the destroyed probe, the main character Michael (who is a her by the way) goes out in a thruster equipped space suit to do a fly by and finds it's an ancient klingon ship or probe or some such, fights a Warrior on it and gets knocked out after accidentally killing him. From there we find out via a flashback that she was raised by Sarek. Yeah. Yep. We're going there. It's a we're doing spock's issues but in reverse episode actually it's closer to Worf I guess, orphan raised by another raise. She was orphaned due to a klingon attack and was the lone survivor, why Sarek took her in I do not know, but it's the way of it.

Now I do like her character, and it can be an interesting dynamic it just feels like Sarek is tired in for the sake of tying it somehow to past notable characters. Just feels shoved in there, but whatever it's done. And the guy they get to play Sarek does a good job at it. Meanwhile the klingon's do a funeral right, and it's okay they do, to my suprise took them awhile to get it in, the Klingon funeral scream, and then put it in one of those mentioned Sarcophagi earlier to put it on the ship. And here's where my issue comes in, we hear in TNG Worf say in TNG (Episode Heart of Glory, I had to look it up no I'm not one of those people who remember it off the top of my head) "It is only an empty shell now, treat it as such." when speaking of Klingon dead, post scream, but they seem to hold the body in much more reverance than klingon's usually do, granted this is a radical offshoot they seem to hold some different values, but the whole thing feels a bit over the top, 40K like I said would make sense to have the hull of your ship adorned in honor of your dead, and I admit it's a neat concept. Anyways we find out he's wanting to unite the Empire, this Klingon I can't remember the name off, in the name of Kahless, he plans on doing that by lighting the beacon from earlier to draw out the great houses into a fight with the Federation. It works after an attempted coup to fire first by Michael on the Shenzou (was going to follow advice from Sarek to shoot first as it's what the Vulcans did with the klingons everytime after their first meeting ended with Vulcan's getting wiped out until they finally spoke) it fails, and the battle begins. The only other notable character from the main cast we meet is this Alien who alludes to being from a race once raised as Cattle or at least was prey it seems, as such he's pretty cautious, he's the science officer and third and is usually at odds with Michael, the Captain (Her names Phillipa), him and Michael all have a good bit of banter I liked actually. In the preview thankfully we see more of him and I want too seems like an interesting sort and his race seems like it could be interesting to expand on.

From this on it's okay nothing special, but nothing bad, they transport a torpedo on one of the dead the klingon mothership is picking up and then transport in to take the leader of the klingon's the fight goes badly he ends up martyred, and Michael goes back without the captain, it ends with her getting court martial and sentenced to life in prison in lead up for the next episodes and the War with the klingon's Michael being hated as she's seen by most as starting it.

-------------Spoilers end

Overall, my final thoughts are it was okay, if I had to rate it on these two episodes alone, biased wise I'd say 6/10-6.5/10 unbiased about a firm 7 or so, either way it's above average and has potential, but doesn't feel like anything too special yet but something worth watching to see where it goes, I admit some of my issues are directed at things that allot of long time fans of the series (for reference I've seen everything but parts of the Animated series, and the JJ-verse movies I've never gotten around too) may also pick at but even putting that aside it doesn't feel great yet, but no trek really has from the outset honestly even my favorite two series, TNG and DS9 had hiccups in the first few seasons or so. They're doing something a bit different it feels more like a drama focused on michael than an ensemble like most shows have been and it feels far more Cinematic but that feels more a sign of the times and big blockbuster drama's on cable ala GoT and other shows of the past 5-6 years or so being big like that. Ended up liking it more than I thought in someways and it has hooked my interest a bit to keep giving it a chance.

Sorry for the giant ramble again, no where else to really talk about it much. What did (if anyone else has seen it) you all think of it?

Plamobot
September 25, 2017, 2:15 PM
You covered a lot, so I'll keep my thoughts brief:

Acting was good, story seemed decent. Continuity is likely a mess (looks like a reboot), and the visuals are terrible. Way too much glare, lens flare, bad camera angles, extreme high tech, and just about everything else cribbed from the Kelvin timeline. And the Klingons look and sound terrible. :(

I'm hoping things get better, but I was rather disappointed. And this is coming from someone who loves all of the other series.

Zeon's RedComet
September 25, 2017, 2:23 PM
You covered a lot, so I'll keep my thoughts brief:

Acting was good, story seemed decent. Continuity is likely a mess (looks like a reboot), and the visuals are terrible. Way too much glare, lens flare, bad camera angles, extreme high tech, and just about everything else cribbed from the Kelvin timeline. And the Klingons look and sound terrible. :(

I'm hoping things get better, but I was rather disappointed. And this is coming from someone who loves all of the other series.

Yeah the visuals and continuity are my main issues. Especially the klingons like you said they're just...bad. They didn't need another rework.