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SilverFrameAstray
March 11, 2011, 12:27 AM
Line up ladies. Ultimatum has arrived.

Age old question. Are you Zeonic, or Feddie?

You can discuss who's right and who's wrong. You can try and sway someone neutral to your side.

*You can change your vote.

http://library.galciv2.com/mvlib/ss/RaceLogo_Zeon2.JPG
http://library.galciv2.com/mvlib/ss/RaceLogo_EF.JPG

Zeta
March 11, 2011, 2:49 AM
Line up ladies. Ultimatum has arrived.

Age old question. Are you Zeonic, or Feddie?

You can discuss who's right and who's wrong. You can try and sway someone neutral to your side.

*You can change your vote.

http://library.galciv2.com/mvlib/ss/RaceLogo_Zeon2.JPG
http://library.galciv2.com/mvlib/ss/RaceLogo_EF.JPG

Here's the way I see: the original Federation (UC 0001) was right in acknowledging the Sides as sovereign states. However, the Principality of Zeon and subsequent Neo Zeon movements were wrong in overthrowing the Federation for their own ideology.

Zeta-G
March 11, 2011, 6:39 PM
Zeon (more Axis/Neo Zeon than the principality though). The Feddies were just too lazy and corrupt. Unicorn makes them even worse.

SilverFrameAstray
July 12, 2011, 9:25 PM
Just as a note, it doesn't more go under what era of zeon, just as long as it's any of them, it will fall under voting as zeonic.

Discussion for the best feddie/zeon leaders is perfectly welcome as well.

Zeta-G
July 13, 2011, 2:51 AM
Haman Karn basically won the Gryps conflict and would have won the first Neo Zeon war too had it not been for Glemy's rebellion, which pitted her forces against each other. The Zabis (and their subordinates) stabbed each other in the back too many times to win, and Char's Neo Zeon lost big time in large part because he leaked their most advanced mobile suit tech to the enemy, just so he could settle an old grudge with Amuro. Haman was Zeon's best (as in most successful) leader hands down. Whether or not she was their most humane ruler is another matter entirely.

squeam
July 13, 2011, 6:10 AM
I'd follow Haman.

Exia
July 13, 2011, 6:50 AM
Zeon, under Haman's rule. Though I'd probably follow Char too (if I survived Haman's rule lol) since, come on he's Char.

StarDrifter
July 13, 2011, 2:14 PM
I'm a Federal man myself.

SilverFrameAstray
July 16, 2011, 12:37 AM
So far as I've heard, Haman was an exceptional zeonic leader. She has yet to come up in my watchings, but I am very anxious to see what she can dish out.

As I've stated before and time again, I only really liked Garma and Dozle Zabi. They were the only two who actually had something to defend, and were both extremely valiant.

One attempting to sacrifice his own life to take down the White Base, and the other telling his men, wife and daughter (bless that child Mineva) to leave and save themselves, and then personally leaves the cockpit of the Big Zam to try and take out Amuro with anything he could have at hand.

As for Char, I've heard he goes insane really and makes a lot of bad choices, bit I'll wait til the day I see CCA, and please no one spoil anything.

Zeta-G
July 16, 2011, 1:15 AM
Have you seen 0083 or Zeta?

swark34
September 28, 2012, 7:38 AM
Hail Zeon . I will side with Zeon under Zum Deikun,

Kenico
September 28, 2012, 6:32 PM
Zeon all the way man!

Suzaku
September 28, 2012, 6:54 PM
After reading the novels, Zeon. Just because they were run by extremists for a time doesn't mean they don't have a point. And not everyone is Gihren.

Shiro45
September 28, 2012, 6:58 PM
I'd go with the Feds. I'm afraid my political philosophy combined with humanitarian concerns prevent me from siding with genocidal fascists, no matter how charismatic they are, or how "cool" their mobile suits are...

Exia
September 28, 2012, 7:35 PM
I'd go with the Feds. I'm afraid my political philosophy combined with humanitarian concerns prevent me from siding with genocidal fascists, no matter how charismatic they are, or how "cool" their mobile suits are...

You mean the same federation that formed the Titan's, who commited more acts of genocide than Zeon ever did.

swark34
September 28, 2012, 8:21 PM
Before i got into the show i was a Feddy, but i really started to watch the show and i seen how the Federation was and i just came to side with the Zeon

Polaris Gundam
September 28, 2012, 9:00 PM
I'm with the Federation True and Through!
But I am NO Titan!

here's the way I see it...

I will be with the E.F.S.F. for sure during the One year war. Heck even up through The Delaz Incident (0083) but I would most likely join the AEUG against the Titans.
and when Haman shows up with her panzy-pants Neo Zeon I'll still be fighting!
and then when Char hits the fan? Give me a Jegan I'll push Axis back into space back into orbit myself!
I'll be fighting along side Londo Bell until the bitter end! and when the Crossbone Vangard shows up... I'll probably be dead...

so yeah, suck it!
I'm a Feddie!

and besides everyone know the EFSF has better mobile suits! GM's are the SHIZ! and the RX-79[G] is my baby!
and it not like we make mass produced peices of...
3547
OH BALLS!!!

Shiro45
September 29, 2012, 1:37 PM
More acts of genocide than Zeon? What UC have you been watching? Please illustrate your point, Exia, because I'm not getting it...

The Titans were bad about genocide, yes, but that incident was generally unknown even by the Feds, who eventually sided with the AEUG to stop the Titans. Zeon's dropped a colony and a couple asteroids, not to destroy military targets, but millions of innocent civilians... The intentional killing of masses of innocent civilians is indefensible...

Other than the Titan's 30 Bunch incident when have the Feds ever done something like that?

Polaris Gundam
September 29, 2012, 2:13 PM
More acts of genocide than Zeon? What UC have you been watching? Please illustrate your point, Exia, because I'm not getting it...

The Titans were bad about genocide, yes, but that incident was generally unknown even by the Feds, who eventually sided with the AEUG to stop the Titans. Zeon's dropped a colony and a couple asteroids, not to destroy military targets, but millions of innocent civilians... The intentional killing of masses of innocent civilians is indefensible...

Other than the Titan's 30 Bunch incident when have the Feds ever done something like that?

He's got a point. Zeon's have more counts of Genocide then the Titans and If I'm correct the Titans are independent of the Federation.
The biggest Calamity I can think of at the Moment is Neutralizing a colony's populous with Nerve gas.
oh wait... Zeon did the same thing to SEVERAL colonies.
Titans buit a huge Gundam mobile armor that was bigger than the skyline.
oh wait... Big Zam, Apsolus just to name two...
Titans had the Gryps 2 Colony laser.
If I'm not mistaken so did Side 3. (well OK, the Federation had Solar System Mirror refection thingy but that was used on a Military Installation)
but then again the Feds also built the GP-02 but you can't condemn them for that. it was more of a contingency plan if you ask me. an experimentation of Mobile suit technology. Military Engineers on both sides would see what the limits of MS tech which was fairly new would be pushed to the limits of what could and couldn't be done.

but still Zeon had dropped How man colonies on Earth? two? Three? plus a few asteroids?

face it Zeon... you're the Bad guys Here...

Exia
September 29, 2012, 6:31 PM
I'm sure it would, but I'm not. I don't really care to waste the time or effort to explain anything.

Exia
September 30, 2012, 3:52 AM
Actually......turns out to be easier than I thought.

There was a certain incident that happened at UC 001, at this little colony called Laplace, and a very specific law was completely cut from a redrafted version of the feddie charter. Now then lets see.....what was cut from it? Oh yeah...."If one ever becomes a Newtype, then he/she shall have the priority to run the government".....any and all acts of genicide are the Federations responsibility because of the greed in their eyes and the unfounded fear in their hearts. Had the feddies ceased being cowards and accepted their fate as the oldtypes any and all violence, all the blood, all the death that happened from UC 001 to UC 096 are those feddie dogs fault.

Polaris Gundam
September 30, 2012, 12:14 PM
Hey man, I'm not saying either side is Devoid from having Blood on their hands.
I am stating that The federation is more up my ally-way.
Politic aside, Because I HATE POLITICS,
SO I'm not going to discuss them with you.
THIS IS WAR! as soon as that bullet flies over your head, Politics go right out the window.

<Sigh> I hate to admit it, I'm a bit of a war Junkie.

I'm a fan of Federation Hardware, Uniforms, and the Portrayal (mostly) as the "good guys"
Give me a GM, Guncannon or a Gundam anyday.
however I do fancy the occasional Joy ride in the MS-18E Kampfer, Dom or Zaku.
but I think I get more satisfaction taking on waves and waves of Zeon Hardware.

And Go ahead, argue me this, Whats cooler looking, Dopps or a Core fighter?

Thats me anyway.

Deathscythe!
September 30, 2012, 3:26 PM
Hey man, I'm not saying either side is Devoid from having Blood on their hands.
I am stating that The federation is more up my ally-way.
Politic aside, Because I HATE POLITICS,
SO I'm not going to discuss them with you.
THIS IS WAR! as soon as that bullet flies over your head, Politics go right out the window.

<Sigh> I hate to admit it, I'm a bit of a war Junkie.

I'm a fan of Federation Hardware, Uniforms, and the Portrayal (mostly) as the "good guys"
Give me a GM, Guncannon or a Gundam anyday.
however I do fancy the occasional Joy ride in the MS-18E Kampfer, Dom or Zaku.
but I think I get more satisfaction taking on waves and waves of Zeon Hardware.

And Go ahead, argue me this, Whats cooler looking, Dopps or a Core fighter?

Thats me anyway.

Perhaps, kind Sir, perhaps you'll encounter much opposition, but regarding each one's design, I'm now feeling obliged to justify you inplictly claiming a dopps to possess less attractive apparel than a core fighter does.
Furthermore, my conception related to this topic , mainly complies with yours. Personally speaking, I guess, the Zeon suits were supposed to look bad or less god than Feddie suits, expected to be purchased more often.


... now stated comprehensibly :

Yeah, I think so too. I also think Feddie suits were supposed to be sold, looking more amiable than Zeon suits.

Amuro Ray
September 30, 2012, 4:18 PM
Actually......turns out to be easier than I thought.

There was a certain incident that happened at UC 001, at this little colony called Laplace, and a very specific law was completely cut from a redrafted version of the feddie charter. Now then lets see.....what was cut from it? Oh yeah...."If one ever becomes a Newtype, then he/she shall have the priority to run the government".....any and all acts of genicide are the Federations responsibility because of the greed in their eyes and the unfounded fear in their hearts. Had the feddies ceased being cowards and accepted their fate as the oldtypes any and all violence, all the blood, all the death that happened from UC 001 to UC 096 are those feddie dogs fault.
Are you serious? Because the Federation didn't submit to the rule of Newtypes it's their fault that Zeon commited so many acts of genocide? You're a fascist!

Polaris Gundam
September 30, 2012, 4:43 PM
heh, its funny cause he chose Zeon in the poll.
Zeons are facists...

Exia
September 30, 2012, 6:09 PM
Are you serious? Because the Federation didn't submit to the rule of Newtypes it's their fault that Zeon commited so many acts of genocide? You're a fascist!

The federation originally came up with that rule, because they couldn't follow their own rules it caused nothing but bloodshed for 90+ years. Had they continued moving people into space and continued building colonies everything could've stayed peaceful. But the federation scum sent the poor and unwanted up while clinging to the riches they had placed on the Earth. If the federation wasn't so consumed with holding the people of space back, none of what Zeon had to do would have happened. Not to mention there were times when those in the federation would allow those acts of genocide to happen without informing the intended area as a way of "population control".

Suzaku
September 30, 2012, 6:25 PM
And let's not forget that originally Zeon was a Republic, and was only saying "Look, we're out here, you're not. You don't care about us, and you don't understand us, so you really need to stay out of the colonies' business." Also, Newtype peacemakers.

It wasn't until the assassination of Zeon Zum Deikun and the subsequent rise of the Zabi family that things got all fascist and crap.

Polaris Gundam
September 30, 2012, 6:44 PM
And let's not forget that originally Zeon was a Republic, and was only saying "Look, we're out here, you're not. You don't care about us, and you don't understand us, so you really need to stay out of the colonies' business." Also, Newtype peacemakers.

It wasn't until the assassination of Zeon Zum Deikun and the subsequent rise of the Zabi family that things got all fascist and crap.

So what you're saying is that you wanna be Pre-Principality of Zeon?
with no mobile suits?

Gundamswag
September 30, 2012, 7:11 PM
Well, I think the feddies were definitely corrupt because they weren't given enough limits on their power. Who were they to decide that the spacenoids couldn't return to earth when the federatation MADE them go to space in the first place? The titans were even worse. Zeon was a little psycho with their colony drops and asteroid drops as well, but the federation gave them the excuse they needed to start the war. All in all, I'm more on the side of Zeon although the thing I like most about Gundam is that often there is no clear "good guy" in the series.

Deathscythe!
September 30, 2012, 8:27 PM
offtopic:

and that's the reason why I am currently intending to include an intentionally meandering character in my upcoming fanfic to be released.


concerning with the topic :

Exactly, there's nobody appearing to be a well-spirited person possessing intentions or executing actions harming none of each.

That's politics concerned with in gundam ; politics reflected very well in my opinion.
How many of us have watched/viewed MS IGLOO?
Watching it, I remarked somebody say there were 20 million residing in Tge colony dropped on Sydney in order to impressively state an example and prove to be equal to the opposed adversary.

I do sincerely advocate Zeon's desire of ridding themselves of the feddies but in the other hand I am entirely unable to justify sacrificing 20 million, loyal lives in order to inflict and totally destroy a significant part of a continent.


to divert the focus to scrutinizing mobile suits, I still have to vote for the feddies.
If the feddies had commenced producing Ms earlier, they'd have won that war and conquered zeon in no time.
A gouf piloted by an ordinary pilot turns out being cannon fodder for a RX-79(G) equipped with a decently fulfilling rocket launcher.
Strictly speaking, the feddies usually attain the upper hand in skirmishes, deploying further developed mobile suits adjusted for ground combat. There might be doms transcending here and there ( and they really cause a mess) but that seemingly proves to occur seldom.
In space, there's GUNDAM RX-78-2.


And don't forget about Guncannon ( supplied with weaponery strike freedom doesn't have)

Zechs36
September 30, 2012, 8:55 PM
I've seen MS Igloo and you HAVE to watch that if you want to see the OYW from the Zeon grunt's POV. Personally if I were able to choose a leader to follow under the Zeon flag, it would have to be none other than the Nightmare of Solomon, Anavail Gato!

Amuro Ray
September 30, 2012, 11:42 PM
No one is saying the Federation is without fault, but to condone the tactics of the Zeon as if they were the good guys in the whole conflict is naive and plainly put stupid. Nothing excuses dropping colonies and asteroids on or gassing innocent people.

All I have to ask myself is, which side was doing more protecting of innocent people?

Suzaku
October 1, 2012, 12:21 AM
So what you're saying is that you wanna be Pre-Principality of Zeon?
with no mobile suits?

Or Post-OYW Zeon in the novelverse.

swark34
October 1, 2012, 2:06 AM
I see it like this the Feddys and Zeon both have blood on their hands and neither side is or have been perfect during the different series. Just like the other day when one of my friends asked me who are the good guys i said there is no fair way to answer that question with out being biased. I simply told him you have to watch and decide for your self its all opnion and what you is right

swark34
October 1, 2012, 2:08 AM
On another note from the poll standings most people are with Zeon so there you have it lol

Deathscythe!
October 1, 2012, 5:57 AM
I'd also turn out being willing to have myself guided by Haman Karn. But I am unable to stand the MS designs.

Deathscythe!
October 1, 2012, 7:04 AM
I'd also turn out being willing to have myself guided by Haman Karn. But I am unable to stand the MS designs.

Amuro Ray
October 1, 2012, 1:24 PM
I see it like this the Feddys and Zeon both have blood on their hands and neither side is or have been perfect during the different series. Just like the other day when one of my friends asked me who are the good guys i said there is no fair way to answer that question with out being biased. I simply told him you have to watch and decide for your self its all opnion and what you is rightActually the answer is quite easy. The good guys are Amuro, Bright Noa and the crew of the White base or the crew of Argama and Judau and Kamille and friends.

The good guys are almost never the Federation as a whole and are never the Zeon in any way, shape or form.

Deathscythe!
October 1, 2012, 2:33 PM
Actually the answer is quite easy. The good guys are Amuro, Bright Noa and the crew of the White base or the crew of Argama and Judau and Kamille and friends.

The good guys are almost never the Federation as a whole and are never the Zeon in any way, shape or form.

Regardless of Amuro pertaining to the EF, you're allowed to call them AEUG.

AEUG.

Shiro45
October 1, 2012, 8:15 PM
If the federation wasn't so consumed with holding the people of space back, none of what Zeon had to do would have happened.

Nobody HAS to commit genocide and kill masses of innocents... Your entire argument is simply shifting the blame. The Feds didn't CHOOSE to carry out Operation British, Zeon did. The Feds didn't DECIDE to drop 5th Luna and Axis on the Earth, Char's Neo-Zeon did. If you're going to side with Zeon so vehemently (calling all Feds "scum" and whatnot) then at least go whole hog and own up to their atrocities without shifting blame.

What's really funny is that I agree with Zeon's ideals; namely, that the colonies should be free from the rule and/or subjugation of the Earth Federation. HOWEVER, the end doesn't justify the means, and Zeon's heinous atrocities would send me scurrying to the service of the Federation to defend the lives of innocent civilians whenever and wherever I could... If Zeon limited their mass-killing to military targets, my beef with them would largely be gone.

I'm watching through 0079 again, and even in the first episode, I'm blown away by how casually the first Zeon soldier just sprays the hillside full of fleeing civilians with gunfire killing almost all of them...